New Book - Old Resource

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by WhatAboutHim, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. WhatAboutHim

    WhatAboutHim
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    Friends:

    I am pastor of Calvary Road - An Independent Baptist Church in Clearwater, Florida. We have just recently begun our church. I welcome visitors to visit our site at Calvary Road On the site is a link to a great new book that was originally written by the old revivalist Charles G. Finney in the days of Abraham Lincoln. I have been editing and updating it to fit our day and time and tweeking some things that seemed to be doctrinal difficulties. For the most part it is about knowing God and moral law being the love that fills our hearts when we do come to know Jesus Christ in a personal way. I welcome visitors to read the part of the book that is presently posted and will be updated as new parts are finished. I really don't want to debate, but any constructive comments would be welcome such as gramatical errors or unclear statements of fact.

    In Christ,
    David Williams
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Since I view everything about Finney and his faulty view of man-centered salvation as heretical, I would hesitate to use any matterial on my website.

    May I ask why you are using it? Is this the type of new church you are planting?

    (I know that some of what Finney wrote is correct, but then parts of Mein Kampf are correct too but I would not use them.)
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I used to admire Finney - then I studied him and his beliefs.

    I truly feel that Finney is one of the greatest reasons for the man centred thinking and pratices in our fundamental churches today.

    And I am not as Calvinistic as Dr Bob.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I personally know a much older gentleman who wrote a manual of theology that practically lifted entire sections from Finney's Systematic . He ministered in Japan and Korea . I hope that he comes to his senses and that nobody else picks up that material . Finney did untold damage and continues to through his writings .
     
  5. WhatAboutHim

    WhatAboutHim
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    Dr. Bob and others:

    Thanks for your kind replies. Unfortunately, when one has not really studied the material in depth as I have been doing, it could be taken wrongly. Finney was a lawyer by occupation and the only way to understand what is being said is to understand the definition of terms used. Where there is an area that seems questionable I have added my own comments or made changes but in general the material is true to the Bible right down the line. One would almost need to say that the Bible teaches man-centered salvation and that the Bible taught heresy. I heard a good fundamental preacher recently preach exactly what I have been writing and the whole point is that moral law is only loving God which anyone can do when they accept Christ and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. His main attack was against limited attonement and other mail points of TULIP. In his day, as in ours, far too many churches were laying back and refusing to win souls simply because God was to do the saving and His irresistable Grace was the soul-winner, as it were. I found that in his definitions of what he calls "nature and relations" we are practicing the same thing in all our soul-winning churches where children can't understand the deep things of God but do receive the simple truth of Jesus Love. That is the whole root of his system. He speaks strongly against sovereign will making decisions for us and after understanding his reasoning, I would have to agree with him and the Bible on that position. If sovereign will is the foundation of obligation then Islam is a true religion and Mohammed and all his followers are right to kill in the name of Allah. You can read more about it in my revision. I do respect all your views, however, and I thank you for your kind comments. I will say that the reason that I am doing a re-write is exactly because of what you have said and I am saying things that more clearly define what the position of the Bible is as we understand it today. So don't take this as a Baptist jumping to some false doctrine, but using the good and expanding on it. In reading his biography, he was big on door-to-door visitation and giving an invitation which was never used before he came on the scene. I think most of us are right there 100%. Again, Thanks!
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Welcome to the BB WAH.

    It is that type of methods that I question, door-to-door and invitations. These are man-made efforts to do the Holy Spirit's work, IMHO.
     
  7. WhatAboutHim

    WhatAboutHim
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    Thanks!

    I guess that the Apostles who were baptized with the Holy Spirit used man-made efforts too, rigtht?

    "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart," (Acts 2:46)

    "And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." (Acts 5:42)

    "And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house," (Acts 20:20)

    "And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;" (Mark 6:7)

    Sounds to me like that method is from the Holy Spirit and from Jesus himself, doesn't it?

    God bless you both!
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I have always heard those lines - but see nothing like our modern day "cold-calling" door to door visitation. Those passages all seem to refer to teaching in individuals homes. This was the pre-Finney view of those passages.

    What we do today can amount to nothing more than a door-to-door salesman trying to convince people of the value of our wares and attempting to elicite an on the spot response which oft times give on a false sense of security in the fact they have prayed a prayer. Invitations or altar calls can have the same negative effect.
     
  9. WhatAboutHim

    WhatAboutHim
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    Believe it or not I agree with you about spurious repentance and half-hearted prayers, but that is the beauty of what Finney taught and did. The whole point was to have a changed heart and be born again as the Bible teaches so clearly. Actually, I did not put this post here for debate over principles regarding which we all have different views, but for some to take the leap, as it were, and read much or most of the existing text of the book so that if there are any gramatical errors or unclear statements we could make the proper corrections. I don't mind the other discussion, but no one can take your position about door-to-door ministry as having any more merit than mine, having never been there at the time. The bottom line is that if there are no results, I would have to agree with you that there is a problem. That does not, however, preclude one from doing as the Bible says, which would not be "man made" if done under the influence and power of the Holy Spirit. Right? Thanks again!
     
  10. WhatAboutHim

    WhatAboutHim
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    Here is the link for the book:

    Moral Law

    Thanks for the responses!
     

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