New Colleges @ SBC Seminaries

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    To all who have an ear to hear!

    Give me a moment to lay some background work please.

    Whereas; there has been a "conservative resurgence;"

    Whereas; most of the moderates and progressives have left the SBC seminaries and have gone out to help start/found other more progressive Baptist institutions/seminaries & grad schools;

    Whereas, the SBC state conventions have always had the colleges/universities solely;

    Whereas; the SBC seminaries have always done the graduated theological education;

    Whereas; the SBC baptisms are not on the increase but are about flat according to some stats;

    Whereas; the Co-operative Program dollars are shrinking overall;

    Whereas; in this vacuum the SBC state institutions are starting grad schools of their own;

    Whereas; there may be an ever smaller student consituency from which to draw b/c of various factors;

    In that light of all of that:

    What think ye of the "seminary six" of the SBC starting their own Colleges? What think ye also of the SBC state colleges starting grad school programs in religion and theology?

    These are my two primary questions.

    I am sure this will evoke a wide and varied response. Please try to "stay on task" with comments that are germane to this OP!

    I believe that this will be a good cause for discussion!

    sdg!

    rd

    [ January 24, 2006, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Rhetorician ]
     
  2. NateT

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    I think the "seminary six" starting their own schools is good for those who want to do an undergrad in Bible, and also good for the seminary.

    It is good for the students in that they are often getting exposure to at least some of the seminary faculty. They will enter into the seminary (if they go to that one) with an understanding of the culture etc.

    Additionally, with states such as MO, it decreases the chance of a splitting away by the undergrad. In that case, the seminary will know what type of products come from the undergrad.

    I have a friend at Boyce who has been in 2 of my seminary classes. When he starts seminary in a while, he will have all of his "basic" language requirements done, and will be able to take upto 15 hours of exegetical classes in the original language for his M.Div. Whereas, most of us will only take at most 9 hours in those classes with 6 hours of the "basic" classes.
     
  3. Rhetorician

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    Nate,

    Thank you for your insight and response. I have always admired your thoughtful answers.

    I guess that my main concern is with the ever decreasing and shrinking SBC educational, missional, and institutional dollars.

    Any thoughts along those lines? Eager to hear from you again!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  4. EdSutton

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    Southern has had Boyce as a division of the Seminary for many years. Southwestern started from Baylor, if I'm not mistaken, many years ago. And I also believe Southeastern started as a division of Wake. What is wrong with that door swinging both ways? Especially the colleges, since most are 'affiliated' with the SBC, as opposed to the 'Big Six' which are 'owned' by the SBC.
    Ed
     
  5. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Ed,

    As in the US Gov and their education policies, there is a shrinking SBC educational dollar. Do we need the duplication of grad schools and seminaries in each state convention and the same thing in the "big six?"

    sdg!

    rd
     
  6. rbell

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    just a few random thoughts...

    I wish my SBC money would not be spread that thinly. I'm afraid we are diluting the waters too much. But that's just my opinion.

    When I counsel those feeling a ministerial call, I usually give them this advice: "Are you sure about seminary? If so, then DON'T major in religion or Bible." Although I had an OUTSTANDING undergrad in religion, I discovered through experience the following:

    -It would have been nice for me to have a more marketable skill to augment my ministry income (though now I am F/T and doing OK), especially during the seminary years. I got my tail kicked financially when I was there.

    -By developing a marketable skill through a marketable degree, I could have actually broadened my availability for different ministry positions.

    -Much of my seminary studies simply duplicated what I had already learned in college (once again, I got a great college ed. Your mileage may vary).

    So based on my experience, the need for undergrad colleges at seminary locales is very narrow. (Only those who will not be furthering their ed. beyond the undergrad degree).

    So I'd rather my money be spent elsewhere.
     
  7. Jimmy C

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    I have a bit more of a jaded view of why the seminaries started colleges. In my opinion the main reason they were started was to boost enrollment. A year or so ago Patterson made a big statement about how from that point on the enrollment at SWBTS would only go up. He then started the college. Unfortunately, enrollment at SWBTS declined in January - the major hit to the enrollment being in the theology school, Education school was actually up a bit, but the Education school is not important to them these days.

    I am aquainted with a guy who is teaching in the SWBTS college, he is generally impressed with the quality of students- although they tend to be a bit older than what he expected.

    Like RBell - I think that our cooperative dollars could be better spent elsewhere
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    I think its ridiculous that the seminaries of the SBC are all starting their own colleges. It has not historically been the place of the denominational seminaries to provide undergraduate education. Here are the two reasons they are starting them:

    1. bump up enrollment

    2. bring in more dollars

    its ridiculous and shouldn't permitted by the denomination.
     
  9. Broadus

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    I really don't have a problem with either the seminaries starting undergrad schools or state conventions schools starting grad schools.

    Quite frankly, I'd rather a student going to college enter a secular institution than go to the typical state convention-associated Baptist college/university (exceptions would be places like North Greenville and what appears to be happening at Brewton-Parker College). In the secular institution, at least one expects one's beliefs to be attacked. That's better than the wolf-in-sheep's clothing strategy in the typical Baptist college which seeks to help the student "rise out of the primitive faith of his home church." At least at our seminaries' undergrad schools, the inerrancy and infallibility of the Scriptures isn't attacked and the biblical miracles are accepted as factual events.

    BTW, Boyce at SBTS was not originally established at a complete undergrad program. Until 5 years or so ago, it offered only an associate's degree. Also, Southeastern was never formally tied to Wake Forest University. It was and is housed on the earlier campus of Wake Forest after the university vacated the town of Wake Forest for Winston-Salem, NC.

    Bill
     
  10. EdSutton

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    Bill, I actually knew that SEBTS is and was actually housed originally on the then campus of Wake. Wake did not vacate the Wake location until sometime in the mid 50's according to my info. I see that SEBTS, after checking was 'created' by the SBC in 1950. I thought the Religion Dept. of Wake was part of the the genesis of the institution, along with a couple of folks from Louisville. I do not know where this came from, but would assume I did not dream it up. But it well could have been bad conclusions drawn by inference, or even bad info.
    In His grace,
    Ed
     
  11. Broadus

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    Hi Ed,

    It could very well be that the Religion Department of Wake Forest served as the genesis of SEBTS in an informal way. Southeastern was liberal from its beginning, unfortunately. Fortunately, it no longer is. SEBTS did co-exist with WF, as you wrote, on the same campus for some five.

    Bill
     
  12. gb93433

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    If one goes to a christian school and then goes to a christian college then goes to a christian seminary just imagine what that kind of education would lok like. I have seen that happen and seldom have I seen those people get into the battle.

    When I was in seminary I thought the evangelism classes an absolute waste because I had been sharing my faith and making disciples for years in the church. Some of those professors had never made disciples and it was obvious. But in one of the classes a young lady asked why she should be able to share her testimony. Her dad was the chairman of the deacons at a local church and she had gone ot Christian schols the entire time. She admitted that she had never shared her faith with anyone.

    In contrast, I remember Rev. Richard Wurmbrand speaking and he said the best students during communism were the Christians. I have never met one person who was a Chrisitian during communism who did not share their faith.
     
  13. Mark Fesco

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    Young men are called into the ministry as well and should be afforded a place to recieve formal seminary quality training.

    2)This very well may be. I use to get a 50% tuition discount which was very nice, but now its only about 35%. They are sucking me dry. This is by and large a result of the cooperative program's money being spread out, best I can gather.
     

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