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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Sep 7, 2016.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I'm in full agreement with you, and have long argued that the idea that the shorter reading must be correct is slightly bonkers, but may I ask you for any 'proof' you have that this is indeed the case?
     
    #41 Martin Marprelate, Nov 7, 2016
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    See:
    1. Dr. Maurice Robinson's dissertation;
    2. Studies in Methodology in Textual Criticism of the NT, by Ernest Colwell, ch. VIII, "Method in Evaluating Scribal Habits";
    3. My own experience as a translator--I always leave stuff out accidentally, never add anything.
     
    #42 John of Japan, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Except that those varients/texts were being used back in time of the early church though...

    And that same reasoning could also be used to discredit all Dispy theology, as that only originated from about that same time frame onward, correct?
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not all the time, as think even the editors of the Critical tect do acknowledge that fact, but would also say that the CT is closer to original than Majority text would be more of the time...

    Good thing is that BOTH of them are reliable/close enough to be considered the word of god to us for today!
     
    #44 Yeshua1, Nov 7, 2016
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No. The Critical Text did not exist until the eclectic methodology of modern textual criticism produced it sometime after about 1850. Another term for the Byzantine Textform is the "Traditional Text." It is called that for a reason. It is the textform that was traditionally used for centuries by the churches, and is still used, exclusively, by the Greek speaking church.

    One of the reasons I am an Historic Chilliast, and not a Classic/Darby Dispensationalist. :)
     
    #45 TCassidy, Nov 7, 2016
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Actually, this is still a canon of eclectic textual criticism, so they don't really yet acknowledge the fact.

    Agreed, as long as you capitalize "God."
     
    #46 John of Japan, Nov 7, 2016
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Didn't the latest NA28 though include for some of their additional variatreadindsth Bzt ones?
     
    #47 Yeshua1, Nov 12, 2016
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, there were uses of it even maong the fist 3 centuries of te Churc though...
    Bits and pieces.....
     
    #48 Yeshua1, Nov 12, 2016
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    <Sigh> And how did a text that took a word from one manuscript and a word from another manuscript and a third word from another manuscript and put them all together in 1850 and following, exist 1500 years before those words were put together to form that text?

    Yeshua1, I fear the problem is that you don't understand the difference between a text and a manuscript and have confused the two. Eclecticism in bible texts existed only from the mid 19th century.
     
    #49 TCassidy, Nov 12, 2016
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You are right , as I was thinking of the manuscripts and variants from early on, not the actual Greek yexts such as Wescott and Hort!
     
    #50 Yeshua1, Nov 12, 2016
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Like where? Metzger's commentary is very sparse on such readings. Variant readings in the apparatus, perhaps. In the text? No.
     
    #51 John of Japan, Nov 12, 2016
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book%203,%201,%202,%203.Pentecost.pdf pp 193,194

    7.3.2.2.3.1. “Second Sabbath After the First” Notwithstanding various attempts of scholars to explain, others’ admittance of being perplexed, and textual variants, one is compelled to interpret Luke’s expression “on the second Sabbath after the first” – deuteroprohtohi – differently. Nestle omits the term. Usual explanations rest on the assumption of a ceremonial Sabbath being the point of reference. Deuteroprohtos / -n, is “an epithet of uncertain meaning, but probably appropriated to the Sabbath following the first day of unleavened bread”, says Wigram. “Already from ancient times many have admitted to be at wit’s end with it”, says Bauer. The basis of the argument that Jesus offered his rest on a Sabbath should be concluded from the expression deuteroprohtohi’s contextual and historic joint. Matthew records the events – Jesus’ teaching and healing – of the second Sabbath after the Sabbath in Nazareth – see Table Par. 7.3.2.1.2. Epiphanius’ description of the expression in Luke 6:1 “Deuteroprohton = deuteron sabbaton meta to prohton – the second Sabbath after the first”, Haeresis 30:32; 51:31. Quoted from Bauer. needs no relevance with any ceremonial feast or ceremonial “sabbath”. It perfectly appropriates the context and historic course of events of Jesus’ early ministry without relation to a ceremonial sabbath. Luke introduces his account of Christ’s ministry in chapter 4 with the Sabbath episode in the Nazareth Synagogue, in Jesus’ “own country (“father’s” town)”, verse 16. Then Jesus was “thrust out of the city … and came down to Capernaum a city of Galilee”, verses 29 to 31. This must have been the development that Matthew 11:1 describes as Christ’s “departing to their cities”. The four Gospels regard this chronology of events as the beginning of Jesus’ miracles which He did in Galilee. John describes the two very first but incidental miracles, both in Cana in Galilee. The Synoptists deal with the beginning of Jesus’ formal ministry after John had been imprisoned and the voice of the one who had prepared the way for the One who was greater, was silenced. Matthew mentions Christ’s first Capernaum experience when He healed Simon’s mother in law without reference to the fact that the day was a Sabbath. But the other Synoptists tell of Jesus having arrived in “Capernaum a city in Galilee” then. He “taught on the Sabbath … in the

    194

    Synagogue”. Jesus on this occasion healed a man with “an unclean devil”, says Lk.4:31-37. “And he arose out of the synagogue and entered Simon’s house”, verse 38. That was Jesus’ “first Sabbath” spent “preaching to their cities”! Two weeks followed, chapter 5, Lake of Genesareth verse 2 Night at sea fishing 5 Healing leper, multitudes gathered 12 Withdrew to wilderness 16 Certain days, healing of man with palsy 18-26 After these things, calling of Levi 29-39 Second Sabbath after the first, Jesus went through corn fields, 6:1
     
    #52 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Nov 26, 2016
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