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New to forum - struggling and need advice

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by mommy25, Jul 16, 2011.

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  1. mommy25

    mommy25 New Member

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    Thank you so much for your concern. I failed to mention in my post that we are no longer attended that church. :) I will read the articles you sent; I have read some of Robin S. stuff. I think I used to have a homeschooling book by her, maybe. Anyway, thank you for your prayers. :)
     
  2. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    That's your opinion, nothing within the problem she had supported the context or need for it, and she said lesson learned. :)
     
  3. mommy25

    mommy25 New Member

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    thank you so much for taking the time to reply! It is so nice to know that there are so many homeschooling moms on here. And I love what you said: Bloom where you are planted! Love that. Unfortunately, we are not planted anywhere right now and I hate it. I am starting to feel that we will have to move in order to find a church. And that's not really possible either. :(
     
  4. mommy25

    mommy25 New Member

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    Thank you so much! I can't believe how much of a blessing you and the others have been to me. There is much wisdom in what you say. Wisdom that I need to put into practice before I lose the hearts of my girls for good. :)
     
  5. mommy25

    mommy25 New Member

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    He hasn't really taken a firm stance on this. He loves women/young ladies in dresses and skirts. But I don't think he believes that women can never wear pants. We both have went back and forth and he isn't sure either.
     
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Ditto dude and right back at you....on the opinion thing, my last comment because I do not wish to "corrupt" this young ladies thread.
     
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I addressed the issue she presented, yes? Yes! :)
     
  8. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I have a word of encouragement for you. WELCOME to the BB! You'll find some wonderful people here and sometimes those wonderful people are "shell-shocked" from all the mindless feuding that they do and spending too much time on message boards and not spending time with real people and they will snap people's heads off - even new people. I know that because it's happened to me and I've found myself quite snappy, flown off my broomsti....er, handle, and had to apologize to people.

    You have nothing to apologize for in your original post. You were just explaining your background and nothing more. So don't sweat it. :flower:

    About the modesty for women thing?

    I'll post what I've posted before many times to others on this and other forums. It's my standard reply. And I mean it will all my heart.
    .................................................................................

    First let me say that I have no problem with women dressing respectably. Women ought to wear decent clothes. Shame on those who don't.

    But consider this:

    James 1:13-15 says that the lusts of evil desires are within us and consume us from within, not from without.

    Lust is in the heart of a man, not the body of a woman. A man who struggles with lust will struggle in the presence of a woman in a bathing suit or a burka. He will struggle with dirty jokes and his heart will seek out the profane in mundane things. He will lust over a woman with no make-up on who is wearing a jogging suit as well as any other woman.

    Nonetheless, women, as nurturers, should dress as not be a stumbling block to a man. A stumbling block is not the cause of the problem. It is not the root of the problem. It is not the heart of the problem. It is not THE problem. But a stumbling block can hinder someone who already has a problem. Women should be sensitive to that.

    I get kind of tired of hearing that men are ALL hound dogs and that they ALL have problems of this nature and that we women should ALL wear sack cloths.

    I think that we should approach this respectable clothing issuefrom another angle. We should teach our daughters to have self-respect. I have found that we women have very limited power in this world. And if you teach some women and some young girls that if they dress provocatively that they will cause a weak man to stumble and if you berate them enough, then they will dress that way ON PURPOSE!! I've seen it. More than once.

    Instead of teaching a young woman that her body is a "thing" that causes men to FAIL spiritually and that she should hide it at all costs, why not approach the matter of dressing in a decent manner in terms of teaching her that her body is fearfully and wonderfully made and is something she can dress in all kinds of decent and attractive styles in order that she can SUCCEED spiritually - dresses, pants, decent bathing suits, or whatever.

    Let's take lust in the heart of a man off of the table and put Godliness in the heart of a woman smack in the middle of the table.

    I think we'd get a lot further that way. I'll make another post explaining my understanding of the "modesty" that Paul was talking about.
     
    #28 Scarlett O., Jul 16, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    1 Timothy 2:9-10 mentions women adorning themselves in "modest apparel."

    Christians everywhere use these two words from this ONE verse taken out of context to mean that they can formulate the EXACT specifications of how long a dress must be, how low a neckline must stop at, how long a sleeve must be, how loose trousers must be, and what kind of undergarments one must wear.

    All of the above makes me CRAZY! [​IMG]

    1 Timothy 2:9-10
    is talking about nothing of the sort. In fact, it is talking more about behavior, attitude, and spiritual mindsets than it is about actual garments.

    How do I know?

    Go back to the beginning of
    1 Timothy 2
    . We don't have any other choice. We MUST read about "modest apparel" in the context that Paul was intending. Anything else is dead wrong.

    Beginning in verse 1, Paul says that we are to make petitions, prayers, intercessions, and to give thanks for everybody including those in authority over us. If we do this, then we all can lead quiet and peaceful lives. This pleases God our Savior very much Paul says and he says that God wants everyone to be saved and to know the truth. Then Paul proceeds to tell the truth about Jesus.

    OK, so far, Paul is talking about spiritual matters.

    "THEREFORE......"

    Now he says with that in mind, the men should be lifting holy hands and praying with NO arguments and NO anger amongst them.

    OK, still spiritual matters - a proper spiritual mindset and attitude.

    "IN LIKE MANNER ALSO........"

    Hmmmm.....

    "In like manner also....."

    "In
    LIKE
    manner also....."

    Like whom? The men. Like what? Holy and spiritually minded.

    Like How?
    By "wearing" holy things.


    The men are to lift holy hands and focus on leading the worship service. The women are wear "holy apparel" focus on maintaining an atmosphere of worship.

    The greek word for apparel is a "garment". What are those holy garments that women are to "wear"?


    • shamefacedness (reverence for others)
    • sobriety (self-control)
    • professing godliness
    • good works
    "In like manner also the women are to "adorn [kosmeō] themselves in modest [kosmios] apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

    Paul did notsay for them to adorn themselves with garments of loose-fitting trousers or dresses, mid-sleeved jackets, and close-toed shoes.

    He said to adorn themselves with shamefacedness and sobriety and good works.

    Thayer's lexicon says that kosmios means "a well-ordered life".

    When Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:16 that bishops must be blameless and live a life of "good behaviour"..... "behaviour" in the King James Bible means the same thing - kosmios.

    Paul isn't talking about a woman's bra strap showing in church or a ban on her wearing open-toed shoes while singing in the choir. He isn't talking about pants vs. dresses. He isn't talking about the length of a shirt sleeve or long denim skirts or undergarments or bathing suits.

    He is talking about "in the like manner" of the men.

    The women are to be spiritually minded.

    They are to be "clothed" in holiness - giving the appearance of holiness in their mannerisms, attitude, and much more. And yes, that could include attire. BUT the attire that Paul is opposed to is ostentatiousness (sp?) for wealth's sake, not nudity's sake. He is opposed to fancy attire (to show off with) and much gold and pearls and costly and attention drawing hair. That's what Paul is speaking out against. Does that mean that we can't wear jewelry or make-up or wear a nice outfit? No. It means to think about presenting a holy and Christ-like demeanor as opposed to presenting a air of "look at me - I'm wealthy and I dress to put you in your place."

    "Clothed" in shamefacedness (reverence), sobriety (self-control), professing godliness, and doing good works. If a woman is clothing
    herself in these things, her literal clothing will take care of itself. If she is dressing in holiness, she will not purposefully show parts of her body that she should not.

    But, if she is obsessed with her outer apparel and ignores Paul's teaching of the spiritual apparel, she can dress in a bikini on the beach or gunny sack down to her toes on the front pew and go straight to hell and take her family with her.


    I've SEEN women who wear dresses only who are so ostentatious about it and that I don't see how they have any spiritual marrow in their bones.

    I do believe that women AND men should dress in order to be respectful of God, themselves, and others.

    But 1 Timothy 2:9-10 isn't a foundation for this topic of women's clothing styles.

    It's about women, in like manner of the men having a holiness directive in order to achieve 1 Timothy 2:1-8, having a holiness directive of their own.

    A kosmios directive. Just like the kosmos directive in 1 Peter 3:1-4.

    Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment (kosmos), such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes.
    Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet* spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.


    *quiet meaning tranquil and living peacably, not keeping one's mouth shut


    This verse isn't talking about literal garments at all.



     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    If you want to know God's will for you and your daughters in this matter, even if it isn't God's will for another woman, you're directed by the Scriptures to go to your husband. It doesn't matter whether or not he is sure. Your going to him will prompt him to study it out.

    Be very wary of the "advice" you get on bulletin boards.
     
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Aaron, I'm not picking a fight with you, I promise.

    You are not alone in your opinion. You belong to a huge crowd of good and wonderful people who believe that a wife can ONLY receive and know the will of God from the mouth of her husband. Her husband directing her every move is the same as God. For the wife, God and the husband are on the same level. Her husband is NOT a god, but he, like the pope, is God's voice directly to her.

    I'm not asking for a debate of that, I just want to know if you (or anyone who believes as you) can tell me of any issue that a woman can discern the will of God on or make a decision about daily routines without the directive of her husband.

    A hair trim?
    Buying new shoes?
    What school to send the children to?
    How much to spend at the grocery store?
    Which doctor to use?
    How long her dresses have to be - what color ....
    Ect.....

    I'm not asking to be snarky. I swear it. And if you don't want to answer my question, I won't take it personally.
     
  12. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Mommy25...

    A wise decision, imo.

    Regarding how to dress, "modesty" is in the eye of the wearer. The scriptures teach "modesty" in appearance. I would say you and your girls dress in a manner that YOU feel is modest. If God convicts you that you are "crossing the line" a bit....dress more modestly.

    If the gossipers are wispering behind your back..just ignore them.
     
  13. mommy25

    mommy25 New Member

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    Thank you for your concern. I have went to him on this and many other things. And it did not prompt him to study it out. It never has. I think, sometimes, that there is an assumption made that the husband will lead in spiritual matters; this is just not the case as in countless families. I don't take all of the advice on bullentin boards; but it is nice to receive encouragement and prayer in matters where I feel alone.
     
  14. mommy25

    mommy25 New Member

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    Wow, thank you so much for your input. There is a lot of info there that I will be looking over and thinking on. :)
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I will direct this to starter of the thread.

    I do not belong to the aforementioned crowd, and Scarlett knows it. Here's my question to you. Do you want the advice of someone who has the best interest of your daughters at heart, or the advice of those with vendettas?

    Who best to ask but your husband? Here's my impression of the situation. I could be wrong, but you seem to have no personal issue with wearing skirts. Your issue is the happiness of your daughters, and whether or not yielding to their grievances will be an afront to God.

    Make this a matter of prayer together with your husband and ask God. Read the Scriptures, and read time-honored, universally accepted biblical commentators on the particular Scriptues in question, like Matthew Henry and Albert Barnes. Praying and learning together on this subject will bring you close together, and you will be less tempted to react to your husband if you have a difference of opinion, and he to you. Pray for your daughters, that God will give them grace to yield to you and your husband as they've been commanded.

    Again, be wary of the advice you get here. This is a situation which can divide a husband and wife, and most here are not sensitive to that fact, or care, really. They just know their own hot buttons and care only for them, not the unity of your family in its service to God.
     
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Well, I was wrong. If you want a wedge further driven between you and your husband, you've come to the right place.
     
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    mommy25 I hope you are all in church somewhere presently as this is very important right now for all of you.
     
  18. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Scarlette posted to Aaron...



    I'd like to know the answer to to that question as well.
     
  19. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Please take a nap or something.

    mommy25, there's a private women's forum on here, it's a much friendlier place. After a certain number of posts, I think 50, you can request access. The posts don't have to be anything deep, they can be on any section of the forum and simply be replies to what you're having for dinner or in the coffeehouse section where it's just friendly chat.

    It's a nice place to have when you're not in the mood for a virtual stoning.
     
  20. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    mommy25 there is no question that some outfits just have no business on a Christian woman except behind closed doors, but keep in mind that it is not always the type of outfit one wears but what is put into it.
    Go here and read this article.
    http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_40_Modesty
     
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