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Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by James_Newman, Jul 11, 2007.
Three cheers for electric shock torture without the inconvenience of that wire. Hip, hip, gestapo.
The Global History of a Torture Technology
Don't forget the added joy of getting to fire a 12ga at a suspect. I bet they soil their shorts when that happens.
Come on Rufus, do just a little research and think about it. The tazer is used instead of a fire arm. And if the option of the tazer was unavalable then the next level of force would be used. The tazer saves hundereds of lifes each year. Not the lifes of the user because they could easly use a firearm, the lifes of the criminal.
If your life was in jeprody, I dont think you would be so against useing what you call "electric shock torture." but since you sit at your computer calling those who protect you gestapo and not thinking twice about there lifes and the possibility they will not go home to their kids you are free to pass judgement.
It is easy for you to pass judgement when you are safe and cozy at home protected every day by the "gestapo"
I'd love to see statistics on how many lives the taser has saved. But I think often the taser is used to force compliance in situations that don't warrant using any force at all, let alone deadly force. I think it emboldens certain elements in law enforcement, who perhaps have a history of torturing animals, to use such implements because of the percieved 'harmlessness' of such devices. Even though tasers have killed people.
I have one dear friend at church who is a baliff.
She told me sometime last year that they were offered tasers to replace their handguns and so were some other personnel like probation officers.
She said that before anyone could be issued their taser that they had to voluntarily be "shot" with it. I raised my eyebrows at that, but she said it was to keep them from firing randomly and unnecessariliy.
They were told that if they knew how it felt that they would be less likely to use this type of force in situations where other tactics would work.
I asked her how it felt. She said that there were two men in line ahead of her to be "shot" and one woman in front of them.
She said that when the woman was "shot" it affected her body so violently that one of the men in front of her began to shake and the other had tears coming out of his eyes.
She said that she was so nervous and upset that all she could do was pray. She told me that the pain and the sensation was unlike anything that she could describe and that she never intended on using it unless the most dire of circumstances afforded it.
The use of these weapons are rarely used to protect a citizen against another citizen. They are most often used when individuals are "resisting arrest", so I can be safe and cozy at home without the use of electro shock torture on my fellow Americans.
Further, I'm a citizen that these officers are sworn to protect and serve and I have a right and a duty to call them out when they engage in immoral tactics using immoral tools. I've done more than a little research and there are many instances of officers not using these weapons in lieu of a firearm.
UCLA Police Taser Student in Powell - This is an individual being tased multiple times for not showing a student ID and not standing up after being tased. I would loathe to believe that they would have shot him if they didn't have the taser.
Pittsburgh Police Taser - Three male police officers restraining a -120 lb woman on the ground being tased by a 200+ lb man. Would they have shot her if they didn't have the taser?
SDSU Tazer incident - Here's video of two police officers who decided to tase an unarmed skateboarder after they had him in custody. Would they have shot the skater for his skating crimes?
LAX Police Repeatedly TASER Unarmed Senior Citizen - Here's LAX police tasering a 78 year old unarmed man. Would they have shot the senior citizen for wanting his impounded car back?
I don't have video of it but did you hear about the 17-year old Roger Holyfield that was killed by police after he was tased multiple times? His crime? Holding a Bible and a phone and saying "I want Jesus". An estimated 150+ have died as a result of taser use. Would all of these have died due to bullet wounds or is it probable that they'd be alive today had officers simply cuffed 'em and transported 'em?
I am a proponent of professional police work, my father was a police officer, and I hold this profession in the highest regard as they are an essential, necessary component of a lawful society. My criticism of these weapons and their inappropriate use is not condemnation of the thousands of police officers in America that go about their job in a professional fashion. However, I will not and can not endorse these weapons, which throughout history have always been identified as tools of torture, as being acceptable. Especially, when these weapons are being used against unarmed, detained suspects that do not represent a threat to the officers or other civilians.
Everyone I know who has been issued one has had to be shot with one so they would know what it's like. One of them did it publicly to show the public that they did so.
He described it as being like jacking up the corner of your house, climbing under it, then dropping it on you. But, without the lasting side effects of being squashed permanently.
You say that your father was an officer. You have no idea how much he worried about not comming home to you and your mother every shift. I find it unbelievable that you would not have wanted your father to have every tool to protect his safety. You say the tazer is rarely used to protect citizen against citizen. Maybe so but the tazer is used every day to protect officer against criminal so that the officer can continue to protect citizens.
I know one thing, If it was your job to be an officer and protect citizens against criminals you would be first in line to get a tazer on your belt. I had a co-worker that did not make it home to his family last week. :tear: A tazer would have saved his family alot of grief and protected the comunity from the criminal who got away and terorized the city for an hour.
Every officer that carries a tazer is shot with one. It hurts bad, temporaraly. Your body shakes not out of pain but because your nervous system is affected. They should not be used for unnessery reasons but can be an option instead of your firearm. It does not hurt as bad or for as long as OC spray (mace)
I dont have statistics but an officer moves through a force continuem. If you have a tazer you have an option other then a firearm. They are used to force compliance, but that does protect the officer.
Forceing compliance is his/her job. If they do not have a tazer look at the other options. Physical hand on hand force. Dangerous for the officer and criminal. Or at gun point. If you go at gun point then you have used up all your options.
For example. You pull a suspect over he/she is angery and exits the car starts walking toward you. What do you do. You can run, but then you are not doing your job. You can fight, but what if he/she has a knife/gun/or can beat you. then you dont go home to your kids. You can pull your gun, but what if suspect keeps walking toward you, do you shoot. Or you can use the tazer. You go home to your kids, the suspect lives and the criminal is removed from the comunity. What would you do if you were the officer?
Here is the officer :tear:
I'm not arguing that a taser has no place in law enforcement. I just question how it is that old men having siezures on their bed end up on the receiving end.
Would they have shot him if they didn't have the taser option? Or does the taser option just make it more convenient to not have to think about a situation, just shoot them with the electrodes and sort it out later?
I don't have any objections to the taser. But I think that all police officers issued one should have a certification from a police psychologist that such police officer is not prone to using his weapon at a pin's drop.
Knowing how it feels to be tased is fine, but above all, knowing the right time and situation along with knowing how to use the taser is much better.
I seen that video of a woman who was argumentative with a traffic officer who then ordered her out of the car, and tased her when she would not. I would rather the police had "shoes" in their cars that they can clamp on to the tires of arrogant, argumentative drivers.
Also, the person receiving fifty thousand volts of electric shock has a heart that is kept beating, in rhythm, by electrical impulses. If this person has arrythymia, think of the consequences.
I have atrial paroxysmal tachycardia.
Suppose a police officer stopped me for going 40 on a 35 on a road that clearly says 40 mph posted limit, and he tells me I was doing the violation "back there in that road before this", I would probably argue my case with him just for the heck of it.
What if in his police judgment I was being arrogant to an officer of the law and ordered me out, and I didn't, and he tazed me ?
The additional electric shock going thru my body would have to affect my already electrically imbalanced heart, one way or the other, and how many millions of Americans, criminals included, have atrial paroxysmal tachycardia ?
There is no question that in any profesion you will have bad employees. Or employees who make bad decisions. Sometimes they will use the good tools given to them for bad purposes.
I am sure that I can find a story about a carpenter who used his hammer to hurt somebody. But I would not say that hammers are bad and carpenters should not be given them.
In other words I am not defending every single use of the tool. Only saying it is a good tool that when used properly saves lifes and helps protect the public.
All police officers are screened by psycolotgists before being hired. They also can be re-screened (fitness for duty evaluations) if the supervisors see signs they need it. But the psycologists can not weed out every body.
Yearly training is required for just this.
Maybe. But a non-compliant person is a threatening situation for an officer. A person starts out angery, becomes non-compliant and then often becomes violent. The idea is to handel the situation quickly before the non compliant person becomes violent, maybe finds a weapon and makes a plan. The officer wants to handle it while he is still in control instead of reacting to the persons actions. This is a frightening situation for the officer, even if the person is a woman.
Tazer manufactures say that it will not interfere with the heart. The reason is the electricity is all volts and not amps. It is amps that harm you. The volts interfere with your nerve signals. They have tested tazers for years and find them to be low low risk. The ride in the back of the police car to the jail is more dangerous then being tazed.
You should follow all lawfull orders given by an officer. If not you are puting his safety in jeoprody. He does not know if you are a psyco with a weapon or just an argumentitave person. You can settel greivances with his supervisors, a judge or anyone else after he does his job.
Not supost to happen. They test these on heart patents old ladies and everybody else.