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New World Order: Still A Conspiracy Theory?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    That is a poor way to talk about your president!
     
  2. RalphIII

    RalphIII New Member

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    I have never said anyone was twisting anyone's words Steaver. I made an observation and gave an opinion! It is odd you attempt to convey it is only Poncho and myself who questions some of your statements when numerous others’ have also.

    I have on each occasion summed up my stance or outlook upon things versus your apparent outlook. I never debate without giving facts or Scripture. I never challenge a person's statements or stance, without listing at least a minimum of those statements!



    Well this is far from the truth, speaking for myself. You are welcome to read any of my posts or debates. I always use facts, actual statements and Scripture. I never resort to simple cliché’s as "strawmen" which you did. Again, many others have made the same observations and in other threads as well. Why not point that out?



    Now you offer criticism by stating nobody gave you the opportunity to clarify or respond? Please note, in your previous post you asked me to give actual quotes by you in order to respond, which I did in depth!
    1) That alone shows the errancy of your statement above. In addition, you were welcome to clarify at any point, which I must on occasion, but instead you continued steadfastly where you left off from other threads.
    2) My previous post was long because you asked me to list your statements. You then follow up by criticizing me for having to long a post? That's somewhat ridiculous don't you think?
    3) In making one specific point. You followed up in clarifying one of your statements but in doing so admit the original statement was not meant as you stated. "Yes Ralph, not all act the way I posted...It is a post meant to stir up hearts and minds to get of their lazy couch and to reflect on this world verses heaven". That clarification alone shows your "straw-man" cliché and criticisms to be false. It is a good notion and explanation however does not detract from other statements you have made.



    Amen on the last point. Again however, I only debate with actual statements made, provable facts and Scripture. I read your statements and gave an opinion along with Scripture. BTW, very similar conclusions, questions and statements as others had also drawn. The only time I feel desperation is while losing a tennis match in which I desperately want to win!



    I will always offer Christian correction when I feel it is needed Steaver. I made specific observations and objections and stand by the accuracy of such. Say what you wish but your comments from the thread you started, "God is the one Who placed Obama as President..." accurately sums it up.

    1) The comment I made, and others', is you seem to be attempting to hurry in end times or seemingly wish to speed God up. This is what the Second Epistle of Peter addressed with early Christians as cited. Yes, you stated that cannot occur but only after people had specifically pointed that out to you! Irrespective, you have continued along that line as that was an earlier post from an earlier and different thread.
    This point is made and irrefutable.
    2) In following up on that point and as I noted. You seemed to actually believe we have some sort of control over these things which was pointed out as being "wrong minded" and false. Do note I highlighted where you continually stated things "must" occur, as if we have any control over these things. God has already determined when these things will occur and nothing we do will change that.
    This point is made and irrefutable.
    3) In following up on that point. I noted you were in essence asking people to support what amounts to bad or evil policies and leaders because it may in some way have something to do with end times. I stated your reasoning is such that we should not oppose any evil person because one may be the anti-Christ and to do so would some how interfere with prophecy.
    This point is made and irrefutable.
    4) In following up on that point. I noted I would continue to stand against people as Obama who support evil policies in Gods' eyes and who support policies which undermine America and Americans rights. We are not called to be people who usher in chaos because somehow we think it may have something to do with end times. Your statements seemed contrary to that notion and I stated an opinion on the matter. We are called to be good Christians and Citizens.
    Point made and irrefutable.



    I understand as other Christians what you are saying Steaver. There is no argument there. The rhetoric however has been quite high as you have gone well beyond simply pointing things out. You do realize there have been many a good Christian who has delved into end time prophecy only to find themselve being as false prophets? Gods' Will, will be done as He commands.

    I have nothing further to add.

    Take care, In Christ
     
    #62 RalphIII, Apr 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2009
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    How would me pointing out other posters errors make your error any less an error?

    And the quotes you presented said nothing of the sort as you have been insisting they have. I have thoroughly refuted your argument. You did not post my words from #27. Which refutes much of your "opinion" of my view.

    What it showed is that you just failed to see the purpose of the statement. If you wasn't sure you could have just asked instead of making a post as if you were teaching the board how all Christians are not being lazy or blind. Do you think there are actually Christians out there who do not know there are missionaries sent and suffering throughout the world? Come now brother.

    I see two points made in this post. 1) This world must go to one world government. 2) Stop whinning about it.

    From these two points you derived all of this....

    WOW! What else need be said. This shows clearly how you have been setting up your own thoughts and declaring that they are mine.

    Now why does Ralph keep on telling me what I am "seemingly" saying and then make statements such as the last one above to refute what he "thinks" I am saying? I have an idea Ralph! How about reading all of my comments and then you will "know" what I am saying and won't have to ponder, or wonder, or post what it seems like, or post your opinion of what I am saying?

    Tell me brother, how is you keep on insisting that I am "seemingly" trying to rush in the end times that I may hasten the Day of the Lord when I have repeatedly stated that the Day is set and cannot be changed? This alone proves that your Opinion was not based on EVERYTHING I have written. So either you did not read all of my post before forming your opinion of my stance or you deliberately cherry picked my post just because you have some sorta beef with those who discern the signs of the times as Jesus taught we should be able to do and some sort of beef with those who see the day approaching as Hebrews told us we should see.

    So why are you not discerning the signs of the times and why are you not seeing the Day approaching?

    :jesus:
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Rev 3:3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

    Are we all watching?

    Can we all see the Day approaching? (Heb 10)

    :jesus:
     
  5. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR PRESIDENT. i WAS RESPONDING TO THIS:

    Brother you've drunk too much of the devil's kool aid for me to ever talk you out of marching straight into his guns I'm afraid. God's will is that none should parish. What you're saying in effect is hurry up and parish already so I can get to heaven a little faster. That's the very height of selfishness and it goes against God's wil imho.

    Maybe you should stop reading the bible so much and start pondering it a little more eh.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    God's will for none to perish is in reference to the second death i.e. going to Hell. It has nothing to do with attacking the army of the Antichrist. The Bible also says that we do not fight against flesh and blood, which you are so focused on, but against spiritual enemies.

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]
    ----------------------------------

    DO YOU HAVE TO TWIST EVERYTHING? RESPOND TO REALITY.
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Do you read the Bible JC? There is a verse of Scripture that comes to mind when I read one of your posts, Romans 1:32! I won't post it. Perhaps you will be moved to blow the dust off your Bible.
     
  7. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me that when we have "world leaders" meeting every year at the Bohemian Grove dressing up in black and red robes "worshipping" at the foot of a fourty foot owl statue that we most certainly have spiritual wickedness in high places.

    As far as I'm concerned this is the spirit of anti-christ and I'll wrestle with it whether or not any other professing Christian will join me. How does one wrestle with spiritual wickedness if not confronting it whenever it takes human form and claims to be our leaders???

    Do we do like our friend Steaver and cheer it on? Thinking God will deliver us a little sooner from this world if we do? Do we ignore it and laugh at the people who try to bring it to our attention thinking we're too smart to be fooled by "conspiracy theories"? Do we do nothing and let these people bring us (and our children) into bondage under a one world government because "there's nothing we can do about it", "it's god's will and written in the stars" or whatever other hokum these "global leaders" and made for tv preachers teach our kids while they tell us it's our Christian duty not to resist evil? Twisting Christ's words and scripture to meet their own ends?

    Well, maybe that's for you all but not for me. This is my country not theirs and I'll not sit by and let them spit on the graves of all those who have gone before us and fought and died to keep this a free and idependent nation without a sound.

    Spiritual wickedness in high places. We're supposed to wrestle against it not make camp with it or say it isn't there at all.
     
    #67 poncho, Apr 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2009
  8. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Good post Poncho, thank you.
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Good post poncho, I also thank you.

    Some years ago in studying the Book of Revelation I came across a statement by Herman Hoeksema in his commentary [Behold He Cometh, page 457] on Revelation, as follows:

    "You see the devil is a spirit; and as such he cannot establish an earthly throne in person. He must have some human agent or agents who will take the position. He wants to establish a world-kingdom. But he cannot rule over the world in person. He must have human beings, or a human being to be his vice-regent."

    I believe Satan has a number of agents currently operating in various world governments and perhaps multinational corporations. Some, perhaps most, may even be ignorant of their role.
     
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Just a clarification. This is not a JC quote, it is a poncho quote to me.

    God bless!
     
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I could never understand why professing Christians feel the urge to lie about other Christians when frustrated in a debate. Didn't Jesus call satan the father of lies? I truly do not understand Christians flat out slandering other Christians. Very sad.

    For the record, since some Christians here do not resist the temptation to slander their brothers or sisters in Christ, I will post my true words spoken in this debate, in context. I've said it in this thread as well as others, but some do not care about truth....

    As anyone can clearly see, poncho's declarations of what I said or believe is not just a mistake or misunderstanding, but is flat out intentional slander for he has all my quotes to read yet continues to lie just to feel good I guess.

    I have prayed for you poncho as well as for Ralph who also refused to stick to what I said and built his own strawmen to rip apart. :praying:

    1Jo 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
    :jesus:
     
  12. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Um, yawn.

    Strawman:

    1 : a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted SOURCE

    I noticed you were confused about the definition of strawman so I posted it for you Steaver. Hope this helps in the future. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #72 poncho, May 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2009
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Exactly! This is why I keep admonishing you to wake up and watch! Do you see the Day approaching? Praise God! That dreadful and wonderful Day of the Lord!

    :jesus: Is coming soon!
     
  14. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Wake up and watch huh? That's for people either to lazy or to scared to wake up and do something! :wavey:
     
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Tell it to the Master brother...

    Mat 24:42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    Mat 26:38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

    Mat 26:40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

    Act 20:31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    1Th 5:6Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

    1Pe 4:7But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

    Rev 3:3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

    :jesus:
     
  16. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I can't count the times someone has come here and tried to transfer God's power and authority onto himself trying to gain the last word in a debate.

    Ho hum Steaver, you aren't the first to try this ploy...and you probably won't be the last either.

    Are you here to debate in these threads or to make believe you're the only one around here who can quote scripture?
     
    #76 poncho, May 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2009
  17. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Hbr 4:12For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    That's why I quote scripture to silence the critics. :jesus:
     
  18. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't seem to be working very well does it? Know why? God is all powerful Steaver...you aren't, much as you'd like to think you are. :wavey:
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    It works perfectly. God's word supports my admonition to you to "watch" and you could not protest against it. You were silenced on the issue of "watching". All you could say was "Ho Hum" .

    Can you give a quote of mine were I said I think I am all powerful like God?

    Of course not....more slander from one who professes Jesus Christ lives in Him.

    1Cr 16:14Let all your things be done with charity.



    1Cr 13:4Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

    :jesus:
     
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