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News: Brand Name Preachers Have No Integrity

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by eaglewings, Oct 14, 2002.

  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Great post, Mike! [​IMG]

    Pleeeeaasee, ya'll don't confuse the SheEagle911 with this eaglewings. :rolleyes:
     
  2. eaglewings

    eaglewings Guest

    Jim Jones religion editor of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reported the Rev. Ollin Collins, pastor of the 2,000-member Harvest Baptist Church in Watauga, was accused of having sexual affairs with two of Collins' female church members.

    Collins is being sued by two female church members who claim they had sexual relationships with him during counseling sessions.
    Collins resigned as chairman of the trustees after the accusations became public.

    Tara Dooley Star-Telegram Staff Writer reported
    Last month, three women and the husband of a fourth sued Harvest Baptist Church in Watauga and pastor Ollin Collins. They contend that Collins has harmed them and their families "by engaging in predatory sexual conduct," according to the lawsuits.

    The lawsuits also contend that the church covered up Collins' actions. In interviews, two of the women said they did not approach church leaders with their complaints because of concerns that leaders would not take action.

    Collins has been suspended from his duties with pay, pending an investigation, church officials say.

    Critics say that church leaders and congregants often rush to the defense of a pastor and sometimes hush complaints.

    The Baptist Standard reported Suits against Collins dropped. Sexual misconduct lawsuits against Harvest Baptist Church of Watauga and the church's former pastor have been dropped by the five women who accused Ollin Collins of abusing his position as a pastor and counselor. In an April 21 story, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram cited court documents to report the suits were dropped after Collins admitted that he "engaged in an adulterous relationship" with three of the women. All five women retained the right to sue Collins again, said their attorney, John Holland. "We had asked him to apologize to the church and agree not to be in the pulpit until September of 2000, and he refuses to do that," Holland said. Collins, who was fired from the Watauga pastorate, also resigned as chairman of the trustee board at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary amid the scandal.

    So Collins admitted that he "engaged in an aDulterous relationship" with three of the women?

    Is adulterous Collins once saved always saved even though the bible states in 2 Peter
    2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
    2:13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,
    2:14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
    2:15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
    2:16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    2:17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
    2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
    2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
    2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
    2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
     
  3. eaglewings

    eaglewings Guest

    Grasshopper - Speaking of Ollin Collins and the Southern Baptists according to Southern Baptists own remarks and reports most of their pastors and staff are sexual perverts and reality shows their church leaders protects their pastors and not the sheep.

    Just as a hidden iceberg destroyed the Titanic after the crew had ignored multiple warnings, lives and ministries of pastors and other church staff are being destroyed at a remarkable rate by sexual infidelity, the president of the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board warned a group of pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders.

    Robert E. Reccord cautioned pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders attending the April 10-13 Connection 2002 conference in Ontario, California, about avoiding temptations that lead to sexual infidelity.

    Reccord cited survey statistics from the book "Men's Secret Wars" by Patrick Means that indicated 64 percent of pastors or church staff struggled with sexual addiction or compulsion. Twenty-five percent admitted to having sexual intercourse with someone besides their wife while married, and after they had accepted Christ. Another 14 percent admitted some form of sexual contact short of intercourse.

    Reccord also noted the importance of every Christian leader having someone to whom he is accountable, someone who will ask him the hard questions about his personal life and thoughts. He noted research which found little in common among more than 200 fallen ministers except two things: all no longer had a regular quiet time in fellowship with God, and none had made themselves accountable to a person or group.

    Ann Graham Lotz, the second daughter of Southern Baptist Evangelist Billy Graham, stated in Tampa, Florida in April 2002, ``I'm not accountable to my critics, I'm only accountable to God.'' And her father Billy Graham had tried to avoid accountability for his criticism of Jews that was caught on tape decades ago on his age and forgetfulness. The "I don't recall" technique was used often by former president Bill Clinton to avoid accountability concerning his sexual liaison with Monica Lewinsky in the White House.

    Sexual involvement by Baptist leaders with others is a real problem in North America. A 1991 national survey of mainly Protestant pastors by a group at the Center for Ethics and Social Policy, Graduate Theological Union, in Berkeley, California -- described by its researchers as "small and not scientifically controlled" -- uncovered similar findings: About 10 percent of those surveyed had been sexually involved with a parishioner. Another study published in the winter 1993 Journal of Pastoral Care found that only 6.1 percent of Southern Baptist pastor respondents admitted to having sexual contact with a person either currently or formerly affiliated with their church.

    Surveys of ministers reveal the existence of a growing moral breakdown in pastors' lives. Almost one in four pastors answered yes to the question, "Since you've been in local church ministry, have you ever done anything with someone (not your spouse) that you feel was sexually inappropriate?" One in five pastors confessed to sexual misconduct of some kind, with one in eight admitting adultery, and only 4 in 100 were found out by their local church. (1988 survey in Leadership magazine).

    How about it? Is 64 percent of pastors or church staff struggled with sexual addiction or compulsion something to worry about?

    Dan Earl Allmond, Youth Pastor of Tampa Baptist Church, Tampa, a Southern Baptist Church, and a married man, suddenly resigned on December 9, 1998 and disappeared off the scene when the police were called in concerning a complaint made by a female high school student that she was having sex with the pastor as a minor.

    Senior Pastor McCormick of Tampa Baptist Church denied all knowledge about the sexual activities and ordered the staff of Tampa Baptist Academy to stay silent on the whole matter and not to discuss Dan's previous sexual escapades with no one! McCormick's own daughter was sexually promiscuous and had to leave school for a while for fear of being pregnant.

    The bible states that a Senior Pastor must be one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?). Hence Senior Pastor McCormick resigned as pastor in the spring of the next year when he sought to divorce his wife.

    Dan Earl Allmond faced two counts of unlawful sexual activity with a minor. Police said that the youth pastor had sexual relations with the girl on church property and at his home on W Paris Street. The sexual relations occurred between August and October, Cole said according to jail records reported the Tampa Tribune.

    Allmond is a Sex Offender under Florida law and now the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit has his picture posted on the web at http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/sexual_predators/OffenderFlyer.asp?keys=26812
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I am not a fan of Ollin Collins or the current state of the SBC, but you are now slandering tens of thousands of people based on your interpretation of a few incidents.

    Last time I checked, "6.1 percent of Southern Baptist pastor respondents" is not a majority like you claimed in the first sentence when you said "most [Southern Baptist] pastors are sexual perverts." Your own statistics disprove what you say.

    Apparently this is not about facts anyway... why don't you skip the opinion pieces and outrageous slander and tell us your concern.
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Is all the anger out now? Can we get back to the regular BaptistBoard and enjoy each other's fellowship?

    This bloke must be a graduate of the Ian Paisley and Carl McIntyre school of vitriol.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This looks to go to a third page. Because of the nature of this discussion, I will close this thread without further notice when it reaches a third page.
     
  7. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

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    Eaglewings --

    Drivel, all of it--pure and simple.
    I hope you repent for this trash.
     
  8. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    eaglewings, what exactly are you saying? Could you explain in more detail, I must be missing something.
     
  9. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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  10. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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  11. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    we hit the 3rd page Squire.
     
  12. Graceforever

    Graceforever New Member

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    What do you know, I agree with you postit.... [​IMG]

    Sounds like an attack on a very good man, Billy Graham.....
     
  13. Graceforever

    Graceforever New Member

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    Gods people the Jews???.... It never ceases to amaze me how mixed up some people are.... The Jews that are Gods people are those of us that are born in the spirit, by faith in Christ, as our father Abraham.....

    The Jews in the Country of Israel, the ones that practice Judaism, they are anti-Christ... Those that don't believe that Christ has come in the flesh, they are Anti-Christ.... If you don't learn anything else, it would be in your interest to learn that.....
     
  14. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    What exactly is an "innocent" animal. And why would a cow or pig be a guilty animal. I'm of course, assuming you think it is wrong to kill innocent animals but if you eat hamburger or bacon, you must be ok that some animals be killed. Are you a vegetarian? And how do you feel about fish... innocent or guilty?

    Maybe you were saying that he was clubbing baby seals, is that what you think he was doing? Or was he fishing for the innocent salmon.

    I wish you would be more clear in you accusations.

    I think I will go make myself a ham sandwich while I try to figure out which animals are innocent and why.

    [ October 15, 2002, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
     
  15. eaglewings

    eaglewings Guest

    So we admit that Ollin Collins the chairman of the largest Southern Baptist Seminary was a pervert? But is Collins still saved?

    In an April 21 story, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram cited court documents to report the suits were dropped after Collins admitted that he "engaged in an adulterous relationship" with three of the women. All five women retained the right to sue Collins again, said their attorney, John Holland. "We had asked him to apologize to the church and agree not to be in the pulpit until September of 2000, and he refuses to do that," Holland said. Collins, who was fired from the Watauga pastorate, also resigned as chairman of the trustee board at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary amid the scandal.

    It was not me but the president of the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board Robert E. Reccord who warned a group of pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders.
    attending the April 10-13 Connection 2002 conference in Ontario, California, about avoiding temptations that lead to sexual infidelity.

    It was Reccord who cited survey statistics from the book "Men's Secret Wars" by Patrick Means that indicated 64 percent of pastors or church staff struggled with sexual addiction or compulsion. Twenty-five percent admitted to having sexual intercourse with someone besides their wife while married, and after they had accepted Christ. Another 14 percent admitted some form of sexual contact short of intercourse.

    So are the majority of Southen Baptist pastors and staff perverts?
     
  16. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Guess certain people on this Board have never heard of this verse:

    1Chr.16
    [22] ...Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

    BTW, There are seven things the Lord hates, considered an abomination. The seventh is "he that soweth discord among the brethren."

    A troll is a troll is a troll........ :rolleyes:
     
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    1.) The book "Men's Secret Wars" has statistics of *Protestant* minister, not necessarily Southern Baptist ministers -- you are comparing apples and oranges.

    2.) You are assuming that the statistics are correct. How was this survey conducted and exactly who was selected to be surveyed? How were the actual survey questions worded and how were the results interpreted? There are so many variables with what you quoted, I can't trust the survey results until I know more.

    3.) Struggling with sexual temptation ("compulsion"?) is not the same thing as giving in to it.

    4.) Just because 39% (25% + 14%) of Protestant ministers surveyed have been involved in sexual immorality does not mean that a *majority* of *Southern Baptist* ministers are sexual "perverts".

    Your statements are internally inconsistent and you seem to be on a crusade to paint Southern Baptist pastors as universally evil. I am a frequent critic of the current state of Southern Baptist life, but what you are doing is grossly unfair, unrighteous judgment and grieving Holy Spirit.

    It is time to stop making wild accusations. If you want to discuss the problem of pastors involved in sexual immorality, that's fine -- just stop making accusations about "the majority of Southern Baptist pastors".
     
  18. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Actually, this topic has no integrity. [​IMG]
     
  19. eaglewings

    eaglewings Guest

    What happened to freedom of speech? So when is it illegal to ask a question like So are the majority of Southern Baptist pastors and staff perverts?

    What gives you the right to remove any of my liberties given unto 'The Constitution'?

    Character assasination is not answering the question!
     
  20. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

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    Sure--you have freedom of speech, but no
    freedom is without its consequences. May our
    God judge you for what you have written.

    [ October 15, 2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
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