News: Declining Churches Oppose Iraq War

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by new man, Nov 28, 2002.

  1. new man

    new man
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  2. rsr

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    That's silly? Impractical, maybe, but not silly.

    And being against war does not make them "Anti-American."

    There are conservatives who are against it, and Christopher Hitchens, the darling of the American Left, is for it.

    [ November 28, 2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  3. Rev. Joshua

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    Russ,

    It should also be noted that the Mormons - who feed off of the same sorts of social prejudices as Christian fundamentalists - are also experiencing explosive growth.

    In a secular society, fundamentalism offers those few who are turning to religion exactly what they are looking for.

    As for the hundreds of millions of Americans who think that religion is the domain of half-wits and bigots - I would argue that liberal Christianity has a much better chance of communicating the gospel to them.

    Joshua
     
  4. Jim Ellis

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    In all honesty, I believe our U.S. gov't needs to get off there tails and go declare war on Saddam Hussein, and kick his rear off the planet! He's no different than Hitler was in the 30's and 40's last century! Hussein /Hitler same spirit different body, do you get the picture? :rolleyes: [​IMG] :mad:
     
  5. new man

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    Not so. In fact, according to the church's own accounts, the growth rate is declining. In 1996 the church reported a growth rate of 4.24%. In 1999, the growth rate had fallen by 44%, to 2.37%, as reported in the December 1999 issue of the official church magazine Ensign. The Seventh Day Adventists are growing faster than the Mormons.

    Well, one can formulate an argument about anything. However, the last forty years of history refutes your's.

    In the Father,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;

    [ November 28, 2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: new man ]
     
  6. Johnv

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    "You must think like us or you may suffer being labeled as anti AMerican".
     
  7. Ben W

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    It would appear that there could be no other option but for a war on Iraq. I really wish there was another way. Either way innocent people will be maimed and killed.

    What Would Jesus Do?
     
  8. new man

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    I think asinine would have been a better descriptor.

    No, that alone doesn't make them Anti-American but as the article pointed out, over the last 35 years or so, the pronouncements of their leaders have become virtually indistinguishable from those of secular left political activist groups. To say that these far left socialist activist groups aren't anti-American is to have one's head in the sand. The Democratic Party platform is virtually indistinguishable from the American Socialist Party platform. As the article pointed out, the leadership of these declining churches have a large lobby presence that they maintain in the prominent United Methodist Building on Capitol Hill. They have aligned themselves with the extremist left wing Constitution hating, big-government, high taxing, over-regulating, entitlement-establishing, unaccountable, irresponsible, gun-confiscating, totalitarian coddling, peace-at-any-price, ACLU card carrying, same-sex-marrying, unrestricted aborting, anything goes (thank you Cal Thomas) politicians in the pursuit of their utopian social gospel. This is what makes them anti-American.

    I don't recall reading that in the article.

    In the Father,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  9. JamesJ

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    See... here's the problem with that...

    "Liberal" Chrisitanity doesn't communicate the gospel at all, only what feels good, only what scratches the itching ears of those who want to hear that they've been let off the hook and it's OK to remain in their sins. :rolleyes:
     
  10. rsr

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    And those of the "religious right" are not in lockstep with secular conservatism?
     
  11. new man

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    That is not the point of this discussion. It is not intrinsically wrong for a religious group to align itself with a political group or vice versa. The big difference here is the Religious Right is not composed of Socialist thugs who are trying their level best to subvert the Constitution, thereby destroying the freedoms that it grants us, nor are they secular humanists whom are attempting to hijack the title Christian. Thank God Bush will now have the opportunity to place federal judges in office that understand it is their constitutional mandate to interpret the law and not legislate from the bench. These Liberal Protestant Church "leaders" don't seem to "get it" that more often than not, the very things they rail so hard against are the only things that preserve their right to do so.

    In the Father,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  12. Acts 1:8

    Acts 1:8
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    Let me translate for Josh again:

    "Since us liberals allow more sin in our lives because to us everything is permissable, we fit right in with the lost. We have no earthly concept of what its like to be holy nor do we have any desire to, thus we can relate more readily to the world, because we are worldly"

    Josh this constant illogical dribble from you about how liberal Christianity is the mainstream in America brings only one thing to mind...

    Matthew 7
    13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
     
  13. Acts 1:8

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    Josh, People like YOU are the reason why Christianity is so watered down and so splintered into its thousands of sects and denominations...YOU have allowed "sin into the camp." Go read Joshua 7 and see what happens when one person allows sin to enter the kingdom of God.

    [ November 30, 2002, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: AdoptedByGod ]
     
  14. rsr

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    New man, don't blame me. You brought this up:

    The problem with the article is it confuses Christianity with Americanism. Two different things. Too bad the religious right can't understand the difference.
     
  15. Calista

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  16. new man

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    I didn't "blame" you with anything.

    Seems you may need a refresher course in American history. A good place to start is the book "America's Providential History" by Mark A. Beliles & Stephen K. McDowell. After that I would suggest reading the Declaration of Independence. In the beginning of the document the authors acknowledge the "Creator's" role in the establishment of America. At the bottom of the document it reads:

    God bless America,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  17. Phillip

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    Why do I always have to disagree with you? Oh well, I guess that is what the board is for.

    First, I totally disagree in your classification of Mormons as fundamental Christians. ...taint so.

    Second, your last statement is obviously wrong for two reasons--number one the theme of this thread that liberalism is NOT growing on a nationwide scale, and second it is a shame to compromise to get people to church. Would you serve beer to young people to get them to come to church? :eek:
     
  18. new man

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    I don't. The ACLU is largely composed of Lawyers whose motivation has been presented to the public as something good, "protecting" the people against unconstitutional activites, even as 'protectors of the Constitution.' The smoke of their Constitutional activities has covered their wholesale destruction of the FABRIC of the Republic, namely it's MORALITY, CIVILITY, and RELIGIOUS foundations. Yessiree boy! They're bonafide patriots!

    They Support

    </font>
    • Legalized Child Pornography</font>
    • Legalized Drugs</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Satanists</font>
    • Legalized Prostitution</font>
    • Abortion on Demand</font>
    • Mandatory Sex Education</font>
    • Ideological Tests for Court Appointees</font>
    • Automatic Entitled Probation</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Nazis and Communists</font>
    • Legalized Polygamy</font>
    • God knows what else</font>
    They oppose:
    </font>
    • Legalized Optional School Prayer</font>
    • Sobriety Check Points</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Churches</font>
    • Religious Displays in Public</font>
    • Medical Safety Reporting</font>
    • Parental Consent Laws</font>
    • School Vouchers and Home Schooling</font>
    • Government Ethics Committees</font>
    • Prison Terms for Criminal Offenses</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Pro-lifers</font>
    • Teaching "Monogamous Hetreosexual Intercourse within Marriage" in Public Schools</font>
    Yessiree boy! Defenders of our freedom!
     
  19. rsr

    rsr
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    New man, you said "That is not the point of this discussion." But you brought it up.

    I have absolutely no need for a refresher course in American history, thank you.

    [ December 01, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  20. Calista

    Calista
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    I don't. The ACLU is largely composed of Lawyers whose motivation has been presented to the public as something good, "protecting" the people against unconstitutional activites, even as 'protectors of the Constitution.' The smoke of their Constitutional activities has covered their wholesale destruction of the FABRIC of the Republic, namely it's MORALITY, CIVILITY, and RELIGIOUS foundations. Yessiree boy! They're bonafide patriots!

    They Support

    </font>
    • Legalized Child Pornography</font>
    • Legalized Drugs</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Satanists</font>
    • Legalized Prostitution</font>
    • Abortion on Demand</font>
    • Mandatory Sex Education</font>
    • Ideological Tests for Court Appointees</font>
    • Automatic Entitled Probation</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Nazis and Communists</font>
    • Legalized Polygamy</font>
    • God knows what else</font>
    They oppose:
    </font>
    • Legalized Optional School Prayer</font>
    • Sobriety Check Points</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Churches</font>
    • Religious Displays in Public</font>
    • Medical Safety Reporting</font>
    • Parental Consent Laws</font>
    • School Vouchers and Home Schooling</font>
    • Government Ethics Committees</font>
    • Prison Terms for Criminal Offenses</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Pro-lifers</font>
    • Teaching "Monogamous Hetreosexual Intercourse within Marriage" in Public Schools</font>
    Yessiree boy! Defenders of our freedom!
    </font>[/QUOTE]new man:
    While I can see why the ACLU would support some of the things you've listed (Nazis and Communists are still entitled to the rights of free speech and assembly for one), you've given no evidence that the ACLU either supports or rejects any of these things. Your word (good as it may be) is not proof.

    Anyway, the Constitution guarentees rights to all citizens--even ones that you personally dislike. This is a good thing because one day a bunch of people may dislike you and try to limit your rights.

    Cal
     

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