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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Aaron, Jan 1, 2003.
David Rush is the Lotto winner.
[ February 26, 2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: The Squire ]
The Salvation Army is going to be criticized coming and going and sideways by some for this, but they have taken a stand they believe to be moral and right and my 'bet' is that God is going to bless them for this.
My prayer is that this will be a testimony that many will see. Maybe only the Christians will notice, but we can always use the encouragement, too!
Again, God bless them.
Interesting, and also contrary to the practices of the founder of the Salvation Army, General William Booth. For he accepted gambling money from the mob. And when he was criticized for it, he simply replied: "It has been long enough in the Hands of the Devil, now it will serve the Lord!"
I'd forgotten about that! Barry's parents were both professional Salvation Army missionaries in Australia. He is asleep right now, but when he wakes up I'll ask him what he thinks of all this!
Helen, please don't wake him up for this. Let the poor man sleep!
no way! He worked too hard today, and a little nap before dinner (it's only about 5 after 5 here now), is a very good thing.
About the Salvation Army thing, the Lord brought to my mind that my grandfather, who was a 32nd degree Mason (and thus knew the truth about Masonry!) was the one who left tons of money to the family, and it has been my pleasure to be able to help others and give to the church with my share...
The whole thing is an interesting thing to think about. I remember in Psalms I think it is, or maybe Proverbs, where it is mentioned that what the evil do ends up benefitting the righteous.
It's a strange world, isn't it?
So, if you will be so mean to that charming man of yours, and you'll wake him up, then you wouldn't mind double checking the story about General Booth, would you?
I meant no way I would wake him up! I am definitely having trouble with my English today!
And if the year goes downhill from here, I should be well into pure gibberish by June!
Maybe I should go get dinner now the international news is starting (we have a small TV in the kitchen for this) and hope my cooking is better than my English right now!
Barnabas, I concur with your General Booth quote......he indeed said it.....and Salvationists, some anyway, collect funds and sell the WarCry in pubs to-day, and often say something to the same effect. Imagine examining every pence put in the globe at Christmas time as they ring the bell on the streets!
It would be an impossible task to weigh every shekel that drops on a collection plate in every church in the country.
The Salvation Army have a rich Christian Heritage, Remember, the Revival they started when General William Booth founded the Christian Mission Is to this day, the largest ever revival in the western world. One Salvationist was stoned to death for the Gospel she was preaching in a public place.
The Salvation Army openly state that they want to shut down all hotels, and in the height of revival did cause certain london hotels to go broke.
They are right not to take money from gambling. If they believe that gambling winnings are dirty money that is quite o.k to do that. They have first hand experience dealing with victims of gambling and really through experience are the right group of christians to make that call.
The Salvation Army have been given all the pressure you can think of to employ Homosexuals in San Francisco. Yet they will not. THe Salvation Army are planting Evangelical churches in countries throughout the world still. and are doing there best to stand up for Gods word. The Attitude of the Salvation Army in Evangalising the Lost puts many supposed Christian groups to shame. In Adelaide, where mainstream churches are closing down, the Salvos have planted several new churches.
No doubt many will throw stones at them for refusing Gambling Winnings. But then few people in the world have respect for any christian group, so who cares.
Recently a man who won a huge lottery jackpot reported that he was giving 10% to his Church. I think the total was something like 13 million dollars. This made me think what I would do if I were in that pastors position. I suppose if I decided to reject the money the Church would promptly fire me. Maybe I will never have to worry about it anyway.
That chap said some rather interesting things on the telly. First, he said he was sitting down that very night and writing three cheques to three pastors with no strings attached....is that the key? He didn't try to control monies given. He also talked about building a Christian school. By the way, the total going to the churches was listed as 17 millions in Canadian papers.
I have stated my views on gambling and it is a theological thing for me..it tends to deny the providential dealings of God...but what to do with monies that others have "earned"? What if he had waited and placed it on the offering plate as a "cash" donation? We would know the source, wouldn't we? Do we deny that?....I honestly don't know what I would do. Like you, I prolly won't ever face the situation.
Could you be an little more precise about this? Exactly how did funds from the mob get funneled into the Salvation Army?
Whether it was or not, it would still be wrong to take it. Remember, Cain's offering was rejected, but Abel's was accepted. And to Simon the sorcerer Peter said, "Thy money perish with thee...."
Another quote from the article:
I read that article Aaron. It is placated all over the internet. The money I was referring to, if I recall it correctly, obtained from the Chicago mob. It was a one time contribution, and it was indeed a sizeable one. General William Booth accepted the money without any hesitation. He was initially criticized for it, but after his answer quoted above nobody challenged him any more!
But it was recorded that D.L. Moody, did not encourage his flock to support the Salvation Army, because, as it was said, he feared that the church support will drop considerably. Today the various evangelistic organizations are going in a round about way, by encouraging the church members to give at least 10% in support of their local church and then give to other ministries.
[ January 01, 2003, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
My parents had to do collecting in hotels every Friday afternoon, as was required by the organization. This money was not used in the local corps, but went to headquarters for distribution. My parents had some difficulties with the concept of collecting in this fashion, but were powerless to do anything otherwise. The money collected in the hotels could be coming from crooks and thieves or anyone else and this, in itself, was a source of ridicule from the general public, who perceived it was the wrong way to go about things. Even in school fun was made of them because of this.
My sister and I had to fold all the War Cry's and Young Soldiers -- ten page weeklies from the Salvation Army Press that they handed out -- and we would wait in the car until they were finished in all the different hotels we had to go to. Mum and Dad felt that the War Cry was at least getting a message to these people, which was sort of a compensation for the money they would give. Even though collecting money in this way was Salvation Army policy, they were never comfortable with it.
So it is interesting to me now to see the Salvation Army turn down this donation for this reason. In Australia the Salvation Army was offered a direct grant from the government within the last twelve months, and that they did accept. This money goes to support homeless women and children and drug and alcohol rehabilitation services. I'm not sure, today, how the money which is collected from the general public is distributed, but I think that this, too, is used to support these social programs rather than keep the organization running.
(edited to add more thoughts)
The money Mum and Dad collected did not pay the general officers. We were often penniless.
[ January 02, 2003, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]
You know, if people were giving without their right hand knowing what the left hand was doing, how would anyone at church know how the money was obtained to begin with?
Three cheers for Mr. Cleo Damon, who heads the Collier County chapter of the American Red Cross. I wouldn't be at all surprised if GOD didn't bless his chapter to an even greater extent for taking this stand. Chalk one up for the LORD Christians!
A friend - Jim
Excellent point, Saggy.
Well, I may admire their integrity, but I question the wisdom of such a choice. This money is not illegal, and the Salvation Army should welcome this money and use it to help others with.
There is no prohibition in the Scripture concerning gambling. Although gambling is an ignorant way to try and get rich, a person has a legal right to gamble if he so chooses.
As far as the argument about how poor old widows and naive people throw their needed money away. This might well be true, but I would rather the state and some casino get the money rather than some fake like Benny Hinn or Keneth Copeland. And people who are foolish enough to gamble are foolish enough to give money to one of these crackpots or someone else just as bad.
You cannot legislate common sense. And it only takes common sense to see that the odds are against you when you gamble.
There is another angle to this. Aside from where the money is coming from, it is interesting to note that the Bible does not say that money is evil - but rather it says that the love of money is.
[ January 02, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]