Ninevah Saved?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Precepts, Jan 2, 2004.

  1. Precepts

    Precepts
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    We know the story of Jonah, and how he finally went to Ninevah and all Ninevah was saved, but we never see where a sacrifice was ever made for their atonement.

    Anyone care to explain?

    The Holy Spirit inspired this account, but where and when did they sacrifice? :confused:
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    Does "repentance" in sackcloth and ashes demand a blood sacrifice?

    What about the Jews of the diaspora? Or Jews in captivity when the Temple lay in ruins.

    Or Jews today?
     
  3. Precepts

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    I see where almost all things are purged by blood; the rest by fire? and without the shedding of blood is no remission.

    Also I have always looked at "sackcloth and ashes" as one humbling themselves. I was faced with this question as to whether Ninevah was actually saved or "spared". Spared indicates a temporary "fix" but not a final solution. "Saved" does though.

    Atonement seems to only be temporary, but when unavailibility to sacrifice according to the "Ceremonial" Law was the case must be where the attribute "longsuffering" must take precedence. But then Jesus is the "final" sacrifice to put an end to those ceremonial "shadows" of things to come: that is "Final Atonement" through the Blood of Jesus Christ.

    Though faced with good questions such as these, I keep coming to that conclusion.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    Here was Jonah's Messge:

    Jonah 3:4 (nKJV):
    And Jonah began to enter the city on
    the first day's walk. Then he cried
    out and said, "Yet forty days,
    and Nineveh shall be overthrown!
    "

    Forty days from then, Ninevah was NOT destroyed.
    In this matter, they were saved.
    Those citizens of Ninevah will probably
    not be in eternal heaven.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Precepts

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    Thanks for the input ,Ed, but what about what the Bible has to say in ,Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

    Now it seems that Ninevah was "spared" from the Wrath of Almighty God in that He "repented" of the evil that He would do unto Ninevah, but then we see where even the buildings, even the cattle are "spared" as well. I guess we all could play on words, asnd in another sense Ninevah was "saved", but then does God eternally secure and save cattle and buildings and such from eternal hellfire?

    I guess &lt;no, not really guessing, but when you use the Bible it's hard to come up with the wrong conclusion as far as eternal things are concerned.

    I had this conversation with a missionary to the Jews, Brother Sims with Hope of Israel Baptist Missions. Funny we both agreed on the matter.

    I'm not looking for a "fight", but I would like to look at this in the right perspective, still, all the Ninevites had to come through the Blood of Jesus Christ for eternal salvation, that is my conclusion.

    Then why wouldn't the Lord give the Ninevites that same opportunity for salvation? We do find them with faith in God, humbled before Him,convicted by the Spirit, and repenting of their sin.

    We also as previously stated, that even the LORD repented of the evil He would do unto them, the same we could assume as He did to Sodom and Gomorrah. Are they as well as any other O.T. saints condemned to hell just because Jesus had not been crucified before their time? Wouldn't that condition therefore make the Lord unjust?

    [ January 02, 2004, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: QuickeningSpirit ]
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    I'm not going to get drawn into a Calvinism/Arminianism Debate.
    God is always just.
    God is always fair.
    Nobody will be condemned to hell fire
    who does not agree with God that they
    deserve to be there.
    I have no idea how this works for people who
    were alive and died before Jesus shed His
    blood for our salvation.

    Once i was listening to a Clasic station while
    riding to work with my carpooler.
    He said he had plaid that piece in
    the local Metro Orchestra. I enjoyed the piece,
    it sounded nice. But he could enjoy it more,
    for he had performed it so had memories of
    those performances.

    There are degrees of reward in Heaven
    (like $1,000,000 compared to $1,000,012)
    There are degrees of punishment in Heaven
    (like $0 comparted to $12).

    God is always just.
    God is always fair.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Precepts

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    Now,now, Ed. If one will only read His Bible there is no Calvinist/Armenian debate.

    BTW, God is not always fair. The fairness objective relies solely upon opinion, and God is the majority there and can't be outvoted. Simply put, our vote doesn't count; whether armenian or not, Calvinist or not.

    Besides, this is not the intention of the discussion at all, and I do respect your opinion of not wanting it to go that way.

    We choose whom we will serve. One cannot have the Scripture in peerfect harmony and believe either of the afore mention theologies. Too many contradicting verses against such.

    In your analogy, the servant hired at the begining of the day was justified in his objection to the last hired at the end receiving the same pay, but for less labor in regards to time to perform that labor.

    Consideration of the fact Ninevites are not "God's Chosen", referring to the nation of Israel, and the "debate" of C/A is ONLY according to God's "choosing", then in reality, only the nation of Israel can be saved, but then what about the "stranger" who received atonement under the Abrahamic Covenant, though commanded to remain in the outercourt?

    Much should be entailed before making a conclusion, and I for one have sought the Lord in this matter and have claimed James 1;5 as a promise from Him in such matters. No "new" revelation, just vehement desire to know the truth.

    I see not many others have contributed, but Ed, yours is certainly appreciated, Thank you, Sir, but don't quit. Wisdom is gained in the multitude in counsellors, but not in arguementative debates.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    IF there was genuine salvation the people of Nineveh did not do their job because only 100 years later the people had returned to their paganism and idolatry as wee see in the book of Nahum.

    On second thought, 100 years is plenty of time for a godly nation to fall into idolatry.
     
  9. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Good job, you got me to open my Bible and reread Jonah (something I probably needed to do anyway).

    Jonah 3:5 says that the people of Nineveh believed God. But that does not mean they believed on God. Perhaps they only believed what God said about their impending doom. They proclaimed a fast and "turned from their evil way." Now does that mean they turned to God in repentance and asked for salvation?

    3:10 says that God, "Saw their works and that they turned from their evil way," and then he spared them.

    How many would have had to trust God in order to turn His wrath. Remember God would have spared Sodom for 10 righteous men. Is it possible that a small number were saved but that after 100 years their influence was gone? Could they have made a blood sacrifice that is not recorded?

    I don't believe that they needed to make a blood sacrifice. The blood sacrifices of the Old Testament were all pictures of Christ's sacrifice. His is the sacrifice that washes away sin. If they were saved the sacrifice for their atonement was made on Calvary, just like mine and anyone in heaven from Adam to present day.

    Tentmaker
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother QuickeningSpirit -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    Prverbs 11:14 (KJV1769):
    Where no counsel is, the people
    fall: but in the multitude
    of counsellors there is safety.


    [​IMG]
     
  11. HankD

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    There seems to be evidence that they were saved:

    As to the sacrifice? who knows that there wasn't one?

    "God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering".

    HankD
     
  12. Precepts

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    A-Men! Tentmaker and Hank!

    That's it exactly, they repented!

    II Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
    10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
    11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

    Ninevites were in the beginning stage of salvation. These verses above written to the carnal church of Corinth explain true repentence unto salvation.

    Is this not what Nineveh did, Jonah came and made the proclaimation of pending doom, they repented?

    The key is they still had to come through the Blood of Christ. The Holy Spirit makes no mistakes! The reason we see no sacrifice in Jonah, is they were of the heathen nations.

    Blood atonement for the peole of Israel was a yearly sacrifice, and when unable to do so, "diaspora and when there was no Temple". The longsuffering of God took precedence and in His infinite mercy withheld His Judgement on sin.

    When it comes to Sodom and Gomorrah, I believe Lot preached repentence for a little while,he was called righteous,but then due to his giving into the lack of a stand against sin, backed off because so many would not hear.

    Isn't that where we are today? Many back off on Bible preaching afraid they'll offend people and they won't come back.

    It's Bible preaching that got ahold of my heart and made me sorrowful towards God that wrought repentence in my heart and broughht me to the point of saving grace! PRAISE GOD! GLORY! HALELUAH!

    Repentence is a work, the workings of the Spirit of God to bring us to repentence, now isn't that the case with Nineveh?

    Not to attack C.I. Scofield at all but in his notes on repentence he states that Israel had to repent but the Gentiles only had to belive, he was WRONG!

    Since God "repented" at the evil He would do because Nineveh repented, then repentence IS required of all believers.

    God chose the "foolishness" of preaching to save them which BELIEVE. It's Bible preaching that causes us to belive, repent, and come to Jesus for salvation/ Final Atonement.

    Also, it would have been wrong for Nineveh to do sacrifice because nowhere do we find God commanding the heathen/ Gentile nations to do so. But we are commanded to repent and believe "on" the Lord Jesus Christ. Repent and believe the Gospel.

    So, shouldn't we be preaching repentence instead of just "believing"? Jesus thought so, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish". Those Jesus was speaking about were those who the Tower of Siloam fell and crushed, they were theives, So we can conclude w/o repentence we will perish/ die as theives.

    Now didn't Jesus also say that if any man cometh up any other way, the same was a theif and a robber? Yep, we are all going to Heaven, because even theives and robbers will go up, but they come a different way, by thier own merit, which is no merit.

    I like what I heard Bro. Hanley Milby say on this subject, "People say you're preaching a works salvation. No, I'm preaching a salvation that works!"

    I know this may well open to other discussions, and I do hope it does.

    The brother that said it caused him to read Jonah, Praise the Lord! Jesus put much emphasis on Jonah and Nineveh as well.

    Man I get long winded sometimes! Whew!
     
  13. HankD

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    QS, I believe the problem is that we misunderstand what repentance is, from whom it comes and what it does.

    2 Timothy 2
    25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
    26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    A further problem is that most people confuse "mental assent" with Bible belief.

    HankD
     
  14. Precepts

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    Hank, I agree with you because you seem to agree with the Scripture.

    When I got saved, I don't remember ever hearing the word repent, but after I found out what true repentence is, I knew that's what I'd done!

    Thank the Good Lord for His Goodness that leadeth men to repentence!
     
  15. LadyEagle

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    Agreed. Look at the USA. [​IMG]
     

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