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NIV TESTS

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Kidz-4-HIM, Feb 13, 2004.

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  1. Kidz-4-HIM

    Kidz-4-HIM New Member

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    We feel that the King James Version Bible represents the best English translation from the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Other so called Bibles like the NIV(New International Version) are based on flawed texts, and we believe have many "errors" in their translations. While we don't formulate any doctrine on just one verse, we do feel the following represents an easily recognizable flaw in the NIV (I won't call it a Bible). We could compare hundreds of versus between the KJV and the NIV and show you where the meaning has been changed, but the following is a stand-alone check of the NIV. I think you'll find this interesting:


    In the NIV, Matthew 5:22 states:
    Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.


    This says that ANYONE who is angry with his brother is subject to judgment, or in other words, anyone who is angry is guilty of sin (if no sin is involved, there would be no reason for judgment).


    Now we look at Mark 3:3-5 in the NIV:
    Mark 3:3-5 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Stand up in front of everyone."
    4 Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent.
    5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.


    Versus 3 and 4 are included to show that Jesus is speaking here. In verse 5, we see that Jesus was angry. So, between the combination of Matthew 5:22 and Mark 3:5 the NIV states that Jesus is a sinner. Thus, the NIV has a major flaw in and of itself. No comparison with other versions is needed to make the NIV a flawed text. If it has one proven flaw, how can you trust any other verse in the book? Further, if you don't believe this to be a flaw, I'd like to know what you are basing your salvation on? There is an NIV note on Matthew 5:22 that states "Some manuscripts brother without cause". This tells us that they knowingly left it out, and it was not an oversight (intent really doesn't matter, but it is interesting that they left this out on purpose).


    Just in case you are interested, let's look at the same two verses in the King James:


    Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


    Mark 3:3-5 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
    4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
    5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.


    "Anger without cause" is clearly different than "anger". In the KJV, Jesus is not made out to be a sinner.


    Perhaps you may not know that many of the other "versions" of the Bible in English, while not going by the term NIV, also are derived from the same fatally flawed translations. An easy way to determine if a Bible is from the KJV originals or some other translation is to check Genesis 1:1. Watch for the word heaven or heavens and see.


    NIV: Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    KJV: Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


    This is a pretty good litmus test. [​IMG]
     
    #1 Kidz-4-HIM, Feb 13, 2004
  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    When you make posts like this, you should give credit to the original author, or at least a link to the Website from which you cut and pasted it.
     
    #2 rsr, Feb 13, 2004
  3. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    [​IMG] ..."Apples and oranges" You are comparing translations, when you got to get to the root, i.e. the MSS, etc that these verses are based upon. I'm too tired right now, but expect many to respond where the KJV obscures the deity of Christ, and the NIV is stronger....If you have a NIV look up 2 Peter 1:1 and compare it to the KJV. Case closed. Gone to bed. [​IMG]
     
    #3 Orvie, Feb 13, 2004
  4. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    PS- the KJV adds the word, "our", thus weakening the deity of the Savior, Jesus. [​IMG]
     
    #4 Orvie, Feb 13, 2004
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Selected from another source
    about OMIT:
    Alright Ed...here goes:

    1st John 5:7
    Acts 8:37
    1st John 5:13
    Rom. 11:6
    Matt. 8:29...
    Jesus omitted 38 times.
    Let`s start with these.


    I'm sorry, i only do research consulting at the fee of $60 per hour.
    It is easy to say "Jesus is omitted 38 times".
    Where is Jesus omitted? Show where it is included, show where it is omitted.

    Meanwhile, in my NIV I find Acts 8:37.
    It say in the NIV:
    Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart,
    you may. The eunuch answered,
    "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    You know your lists from NEW AGE VERSIONS
    by Sister Riplinger are frequently in error.
    I note she also misses such things as
    which 37 verses omit Jesus in which Bible.
    Does the 37 verses include all 200+ of the
    Modern Versions (MV) or just one of them?

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 Ed Edwards, Feb 13, 2004
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Here it is:
    http://www.lifelinebaptist.net/kjv.htm


    I'll leave the protocall lecture for
    others ...

    [​IMG]
     
    #6 Ed Edwards, Feb 13, 2004
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Same stuff, different day. When will folks learn that such illogical cut-and-paste will not enhance their argument?
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Feb 14, 2004
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Again K4H, congratulations on your wonderfully original postings!
     
    #8 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 14, 2004
  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Kidz-4-HIM ;
    What is your position on the long ending of Mark 16:9-20?
     
    #9 gb93433, Feb 14, 2004
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    This is the litmus test!?
    Then the King james version of the Bible fails when compared to the Hebrew.

    The Hebrew word for "heaven" of Genesis 1:1 is shamayim dual-plural.

    For several thousands of years before there were any English translations, the infallible inerrant word of God in the Hebrew language said something different than the infallible innerant 1611 English translation of that same text of Genesis 1:1.

    Your litmus test is your own gallows.

    HankD
     
    #10 HankD, Feb 14, 2004
  11. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo <img src ="/Granny.gif">

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    Oh my!!! :eek: I tho't this read HIV TESTS!
     
    #11 GrannyGumbo, Feb 14, 2004
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I found, oops, my wife found,
    something interesting in the NIV
    at 1 Timothy 5:16. I put it here because
    the first 3 MVs i looked at have the same
    thing.

    The KJV1769 speaks of
    "If any man or woman that believeth have widows ... "

    1 Timothy 5:16a (NIV):
    "if any woman who is a believer has widows ... "

    So what says the original Greek versions?

    [​IMG]
     
    #12 Ed Edwards, Feb 14, 2004
  13. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Not at all. The act of judging is done to determine if there is guilt (sin) or not. Look at the legal system: not everyone who goes to trial is guilty, the trial is done to determine guilt.

    Look at the two verses together:

    Matt 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Notic what is going on in this passage. There are four "whosoever"s and their consequences listed. You take one, and condemn the NIV based on it. Let's look at the others:

    - "whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment". Note this phrase also does not have "without a cause", yet many OT saints and even God himself killed people. Does this verse in the KJV mean that God is a sinner?

    - "whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council" and "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire". Neither of these have "without a cause" either. "Raca" means "empty" as in an empty head, air head, stupid, etc. and is similar to "fool". God calls someone a fool in Luke 12:20. Jesus calls the Pharisees fools in Matt 23:17 and 23:19. Why does the first half of the verse make Jesus a sinner in the NIV, but the last half of the verse doesn't make Jesus a sinner in the KJV?

    The KJV is not the "originals".

    Then even the Hebrew fails, for the Hebrew is plural here. Oh, I see Hank already mentioned that. [​IMG]


    Ya, I know what you mean. I always get "KJB" mixed up with "KGB" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
    #13 BrianT, Feb 14, 2004
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The Scrivener 1894 and the majority NT Greek text have both the masculine and feminine word for "believer (Greek-pistos)" in the text which the KJV reflects.

    Aleph has only the feminine.

    The 1881 W/H NT Greek text has only the feminine reflected by the NIV.

    HankD
     
    #14 HankD, Feb 14, 2004
  15. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo <img src ="/Granny.gif">

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    I always get "KJB" mixed up

    "And therein lies your problem." :D
     
    #15 GrannyGumbo, Feb 14, 2004
  16. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Granny Gumbo, you deserve a bouqet, besides, they've already got the Greek strain of "aids" already.

    [​IMG]
     
    #16 Precepts, Feb 14, 2004
  17. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    Granny Gumbo, you deserve a bouqet, besides, they've already got the Greek strain of "aids" already.

    [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]Duh have you forgotten what the KJV translators used for their NT? :rolleyes: qs thinks we can't use what the translators used [​IMG]
     
    #17 Orvie, Feb 14, 2004
  18. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    But he's not KJVO. He gets offended when you call him that... :rolleyes:
     
    #18 Scott J, Feb 14, 2004
  19. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Since offensiveness is your tool to try and teach, yes, it's offensive, but then an eductaed idiot can't help but be offensive either, nice compliment you've given yourselves, here's a bouqet for you!

    [​IMG]
     
    #19 Precepts, Feb 14, 2004
  20. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    spoken like a true gentleman of the Nehushtan Pickled Version Sect :eek:
     
    #20 Orvie, Feb 14, 2004
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