No, a Vote for a Third Party (or Abstaining from Voting) Is not the Same as a Vote for Hillary

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Revmitchell, May 5, 2016.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    Now that it has become clear that the Republican candidate will be Donald Trump and that the Democrat candidate will be Hillary Clinton, the accusations have already begun against all who have said they will not vote for either candidate. “A vote for a third party or refraining from voting altogether is the same as a vote for Hillary”, or “if you vote third party we have you to thank for Hillary becoming president”. I intend to give several reasons why this is false and why there is no need to give in to the guilt trip.

    The first and most obvious reason is that a vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary whereas not voting for her is one less vote than she would receive if you did vote for her. While this is painfully obvious, those who make such accusations seem to not get this. My first response is “oh so in that case you would be just as okay with me voting for Hillary as you would with me voting third party or just abstaining?”. To this they either reply with a resounding don’t vote for Hillary or they see where I am going with it and they hem haw around. No matter how you break it down, not voting for Hillary is always better than voting for Hillary. So on its face it is clearly not true that a vote for a third party or just not voting is the same exact thing as a vote for Hillary.

    The second reason is that this accusation assumes a Republican ownership of our votes. Many of us Christians and Reformed Christians are not Republicans at all. We might be libertarians, or part of the Constitution Party, or possibly Covenanters who reject the whole system. Whatever the case may be, each election cycle the Republican Party has the same challenge as any other party out there and that is to put a candidate up who earns people’s vote. If the GOP does not put forth such a candidate they cannot assume that they own that vote and thus not voting for their candidate is the same as voting for the Democrat candidate. If you never had my vote to start with, you can hardly claim it in effort to oppose some greater evil.

    https://reformedlayman.wordpress.co...voting-is-not-the-same-as-a-vote-for-hillary/
     
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  2. church mouse guy

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    I was under the impression that Libertarians are for Super-wealthy Trump because he has rejected Reagan's policy of a conservative traditional approach to moral values. After all, Super-wealthy Trump did welcome Bruce Jenner to use the Ladies Washroom in the Trump Tower.

    Super-wealthy Trump is using Dr. Carson on his team and Dr. Carson seems grateful to him. Super-wealthy Trump even said that Lyin' Ted would make a good V-P. I think that Super-wealthy Trump is a cheapskate.
     
  3. Zaac

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    Yet a whole lot of the same folks were saying the same thing to others about wasting their vote when Romney became the candidate.:rolleyes:

    Vote for whomever you like. Just use some consistency.
     
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  4. Benjamin

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    The goal of the Republican Party is to unite and to defeat Hillary.


    All others need not apply…
     
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  5. InTheLight

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    Yes, and the strategy and tactics for doing that was laid out by the party chairman after Romney lost in 2012. The so-called "GOP autopsy" laid out these actions if they wanted to win the presidency back in 2016:

    1. Immigration reform. What's Trump's position on immigration reform? Build a wall, deport people, and ban others from entry into the country. A surefire way of getting votes, right?

    2. Inclusion of minorites.

    3. Lose the image of rich, white people.

    Trump does not check any of those boxes.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Which I support every bit of that.

    The GOP has minorities

    Pure propaganda not truth to it just emotion.
     
  7. InTheLight

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    My point is that these things were things that the GOP were going to address in 2016 and instead they went with a candidate that violates all of them.
     
  8. HankD

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    Yes this makes sense even to an Independent like myself.

    Where IMO it would matter is if you see Trump a little bit better choice than Hillary and you stay home. Or in another situation as Tom Cassidy said "the devil I know vs the devil I don't know" which is where I am at. I don't particularly like Trump as a presidential possibility but I like Hillary even less.

    HankD
     
    #8 HankD, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  9. 777

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    No, a vote for a 3rd party candidate or an abstention is not a vote for Hillary but I don't think it's a good idea if you happen to live in a swing state like Florida. I think it's saying more as "no preference", and if that's true, that's the way to go.

    It's your vote, when all's said and done. The GOP autopsy:

    http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/do...es-growth-and-opportunity-project-report/380/

    was what the party leaders suggested the party could do to stop losing the presidency. This time they didn't get the candidate they wanted:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.co...owth-and-opportunity-project-the-gop-autopsy/

    so they didn't "violate" anything, maybe their own voters did. Somebody the establishment wanted like JEB or Lindsey would've lost to Hillary, she has their game plan but not Trump's.
     
  10. InTheLight

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    They didn't try to stop Trump until it was too late. Romney gave his speech right before Super Tuesday. They should have started to try to derail Trump's campaign in the fall of 2015, months before Iowa's caucus.

    The GOP got what they deserved. Prince Reebus is a hypocrite.


    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
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  11. TCassidy

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    No, a Vote for a Third Party (or Abstaining from Voting) Is not the Same as a Vote for Hillary

    Yes, it is. It is naive to think otherwise. Just look at the 1992 election cycle.

    Bill Clinton got 44,909,806 popular votes.
    George H.W. Bush got 39,104,550 popular votes.
    Ross Perot got 19,743,821 popular votes.

    Do the math! Perot was to the right of Bush. Had he dropped out, if only half of his supporters had voted for bush, and the rest abstained from voting for anyone, Bush would have garnered 50 million votes and been the President for 4 more years.

    What is certain is that all the polling showed that Perot only took votes from Bush. None of them told the exit pollsters they would have voted for Clinton if Perot dropped out.

    We have the same thing today. None of the Cruz supports will vote for Hilary. But if they vote for anyone other than Trump (holding their nose as they do so), or abstain, Hilary will be the next President, will appoint 5 new Supreme Court Justices, and change the character of our once great nation in far more significant ways than Obama even though of doing.

    Time to wake up and smell the coffee! Trump would have been my last choice from among the Republican candidates, but he is now the presumptive GOP nominee. Either get behind him or surrender the country to Hilary.
     
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  12. Revmitchell

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    Has nothing to do with it. And no its not. I do not have to vote for anyone I cannot support just because childish people want to try and lay blame on anyone who does not see thing as as they do.If I have not voted for someone then I am not to blame for if they get elected or not. Period.

    If you vote for someone you own everything they do.
     
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  13. Revmitchell

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    I see we have more abuse of the dumb rating.
     
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  14. Rolfe

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    One Dumb Box is abuse? *laugh*

    You need thicker skin.
     
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  15. HankD

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    IMO The GOP has itself to blame as the establishment and RINO senators, congressmen and Governors sat on their duffs after all the promises and did nothing but say"yes" and "OK" to those they represented and DID NOTHING.

    The sheeple have awakened and ARE FURIOUS!

    Trump "capitalized" upon that fury as if it were a dream come true.

    In my opinion, the GOP will never be the same and may even disappear from the face of the earth.
    Hopefully the Good Ole Boys have learned a big lesson.

    Thank you Founding Fathers for the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
    with the ability to boot out those who are hirelings.

    I'm not crazy about Trump but he did throw a hornets nest into the useless "establishment" country club.

    I must admit that I do get some pleasure seeing and hearing them whine about the Donald.

    HankD
     
    #15 HankD, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
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  16. church mouse guy

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    Super-rich Trump does not want conservative votes.
     
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  17. InTheLight

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    This sounds a lot like the argument used to urge people to support McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012.

    If we keep blindly backing the lesser of two evils (this time it's the lesser of two evil evils) we'll keep getting lousy candidates. If enough people vote for a third party candidate, especially in this election, maybe the GOP will wake up and smell the coffee and stop giving us lousy candidates.

    BTW, voting for Trump would be surrendering the country to Trump. We know he would be vindictive, rule with an authoritarian streak, employ executive orders, etc. You think Obama was bad, Trump could be worse.
     
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  18. HankD

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    Probably ITL, probably, but I hope not.

    HankD
     
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  19. Kevin

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    Hillary is pure evil, and will finish the job obamo started if she gets in. Trump is the wild card, and might possibly surprise us.

    Trump is the one the the people wanted, so the GOP should have changed their rules and blocked him, or put up a better candidate to challenge him
     
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  20. blessedwife318

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    Back in 2008 and 2012 I thought this as well. I thought stopping Obama was the most important thing. So I held my nose and voted for McCain and then Romney. But no more. If the country is going to be destroyed I don't want to have voted for the person destroying it, be it Hilary or Trump. Both of them will destroy this country. I live in a solid Red state so it won't matter in the grand scheme of things, but if it sends the GOP a message so much the better. Trump was clearly the Establishments 3rd choice so they can now live with the deal they made. I'm done with them. I think Sen. Sasse has the best idea. Get a Polk like President to come in for 4 years and clean house and then we can all reevaluate in 2020. But since that is not going to happen I'll just sit back and watch the implosion of the GOP and the Dems to a lesser extent.
     
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