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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Roy1, Sep 20, 2003.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to why there is “no more sea”? Rev 21:1
In ancient middle eastern cosmology and mythology, the sea represented the forces of chaos and disorder. In this it is also allied with the concepts of light vs. darkness, good vs. evil, etc. This is also demonstrated at the beginning of the Bible in Genesis, where the first of the creative acts were the separation of light from darkness, and the separation of atmosphere and dry land from water.
Thus Genesis begins the creation of this age with a separation of the ordered and habitable world from primordial chaos and darkness. The Revelation begins the creation of the next age with a final defeat of those forces.
Morgan Cryar wrote:
The verse you refer to is symbolic of the wonderful existence the saints will have after this life! There will be no sea to divide us.
There is no need for a sea in heaven, Praise God!
Consider other symbolic terms like these;
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
sea also represents gentiles in the OT. .
Sea also represents division in almost every culture and belief. No more sea, no more division
(what divides the world? The Oceans & rivers).
Thanks so far,
I have come to some possibilities such as the, place of our buried sins, storms of life, separation of the nations, fishing for fish and for souls has come to an end and the place that man has poured his pollutions.
Keep them coming if there are any more thoughts.
There is the BIBLICAL explanation yet to consider.
On the second day of the creation, the Lord God "divided" the waters of the great "deep" into two parts. BOTH the waters that were upon the face of the Earth, and the waters which He placed ABOVE the two heavens of the firmament, He called "Seas":
"And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good."
(Gen 1:10 KJV)
(Special note: Notice that the word "Sea" is capitalized at Genesis 1:10 in the KJV Bible. So are the words "Day" and "Night" at Genesis 1:5. Special attention is called to the importance of these terms, as they can have either a physical and/or spiritual meaning throughout the Scriptures depending on the context.
"Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
(1 Thessalonians 5:5 KJV)
Yes, the Scriptures say there is presently a sea above the two heavens of the firmament. And this is confirmed elsewhere in the Bible:
"Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."
(Psalms 148:4 KJV)
This is the "sea" that John saw in his visions:
"And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind."
(Rev 4:6 KJV)
The reason it appears like a smooth, crystal surface is because it is frozen:
"The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."
(Job 38:30 KJV)
"And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."
(Exodus 24:10 KJV)
That present "Sea" of separation will no longer exist when God destroys the old world and makes all things new after the final judgment:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
(Revelation 21:1 KJV)
Now, why that SEA was put there and why it is no longer there after the final judgment requires some study into dispensational theology. You might find the graphic and the information on this link helpful: BIBLICAL TIMELINE
I hope you find this helpful.
This is the sort of answer I was expecting.
These other thoughts can preach, but what we need it a real biblical answer.
Still some digging to be done, but thanks.
Robert Mounce probably offers as good an understanding of this passage as any, and he cites the writings of Swete:
"...The sea disappears because in the mind of the writer it is associated with ideas which are at variance with the character of the New Creation. Isaiah compares the wicked to the tossing sea which cannot rest, whose waters toss up mire and dirt (Isa 57:20). It was out of the sea that the beast who blasphemed God and made war on the saints had arised (Rev 13:1, 6-7). According to the Assumption of Moses, when God shall appear in the last days to punish the Gentiles, The sea shall retire into the abyss..(10:6)(Assumption of Moses is extra-biblical literature).
Roy, Here is some additional information. That "SEA" is directly related to the "Third Heaven" and the present structure of all things.
According to the Scriptures, there is a physical/spiritual structure to the universe: there are three (3) heavens and two (2) different "seas"; one sea upon the face of the earth and the other between the second and third heaven.
The Apostle Paul makes reference to the importance of this knowledge in the book of Ephesians where he wrote:
"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."
(Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV)
Pay close attention to the structure of the grammar here. Paul is speaking about two different things in this passage. The first is the structure of things ("the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;") and the second is ("to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge"). The important key word here is the conjunction "And" which separates the two clauses.
In other words, Paul is saying there are two things the believer can and should know. 1) The dimensions and structure of all things, which can be defined. 2) The love of Christ, which is beyond full comprehension by man. A corollary to the truth of this passage is found in an Old Testament proverb:
"The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings [is] unsearchable."
In the book of II Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 2, the Apostle Paul speaks of a place called the "third heaven":
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven."
(II Cor. 12:2 KJV)
During the six days of the Genesis regeneration the Lord God defined three heavens. The first heaven is the Earth's atmosphere:
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
(Gen 1:20 KJV)
The second heaven is the vast expanse of the physical universe; outer space, as we call it:
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
(Gen 1:14 KJV)
These two heavens constitute a continuum called the "firmament" and this firmament is collectively called "Heaven":
"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."
(Gen 1:8 KJV)
Although the "third heaven" is not directly mentioned in the Genesis narrative, there is mention of a boundary which presently exists between the two lower heavens (which constitute the firmament) and the third heaven (where the throne of God is). That boundary is a vast "Sea": (The one referenced in Revelation 21:1)
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so."
(Gen 1:6-7 KJV)
As another posted earlier this is, indeed, a division. It divides the world below (our present world) from the heavenly world above the universe.
John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
In classical Greek and Latin literature, "the sea" always refers to the Mediterranean (the Roman lake) Sea.
With the new shape of the land masses on the earth following the horrors of the tribulation, John is simply commenting on the Mediterranean Sea as no longer the center of all maps, directions, etc.
BTW, neither is the Dead Sea or the lower Jordan Rift Valley. A new river flows from Jerusalem east and west.
Big changes on the earth, I'd say, after 7 years of hell-on-earth.
Revelation 21 teaches that the old heaven and earth passed away, and there was no more sea. This could just mean that since the old heaven and earth passed away, so did the old sea. It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be no more sea in the new heaven and new earth.
With all respect, John says in no uncertain words "there was no more sea" which, translated from the original Greek, means "there was no more sea." Your comment that John was merely making a comment on the post Tribulation geographical and cartagraphic significance of the Mediterranean basin is rather flimsy, Doctor.
In respect to your BTW comment about a new river flowing from Jerusalem towards east and west, I assume your reference is to this passage in the book of Zechariah?
Note that west and east (former and hinter) directions from Jerusalem would have the waters flowing into both the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea basins. This strongly suggests that the reference to "no more sea" is NOT a reference to either the Mediterranean or the Dead Sea as they are both still there.
Further note that the reference in Zechariah is in the context and time frame of the 1000 years Kingdom of Heaven when the Lord rules on the Earth at Jerusalem, while the reference to the "no more sea" in Revelation 21:1 is after the Great White Throne Judgment which follows the 1000 years.
The conclusion is that the reference to "no more sea" of Revelation 21:1 does not meet the suggested criteria.