no pre-mil, no eternal security

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Plain Old Bill, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
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    I have noticed several on this board who hold to post-tribulation and no eternal security for the beleiver (you can lose your salvation). I have never heard of baptist who hold both of these positions at the same time. What kind of baptist are these? What would they call themselves as a local new testament church?
     
  2. Trotter

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  3. DeafPosttrib

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    Many Christians hold pretribulation doctrine because of OSAS. The reason is, many do not want hear warning about worship the Antichrist, and received the mark of the beast - Rev. 13:9-18; and Rev. 14:9-11. It warn us, if any person worship or receive the mark of the beast will go to hell. Many pretrib pastors saying Rev. 13:9-18 and 14:9-11 is not apply to Christians, because we will be rapture first.

    Bible does not saying it. Bible warns us, anyone either unsaved or saved person who shall worship the beast or receive the mark of the beast will go to hell. Obivously, Rev. 13:9-18 & 14:9-11 strongly speak against OSAS doctrine.

    Also, many baptist pastors do not want to preach on Matt 25:26-30 include three different servents with their talents(Matt 25:14-30). True, many pastors do teach or preach on the talents in the church. But, they skipping Matt. 25:30. It is very clear speak warning to anyone to apply us as servant, if any anyone who do not serve the Lord, and being lazy, will cast into darkeness and having gnashing with teeth speak of hell is everlasting punishment. Many pastors avoid it.

    Matt. 25:30 is very obivous opposite of OSAS teaching.

    Every pastors ought to preach Matt. 25:14-30, even they ought warn to every person on verse 30 too.

    I am a truly baptist, because I believe the Bible teaches us a person being baptized under the water with whole body like as buried under the water, and resurrection from the dead- out of the water - Romans 6:3-5.

    I know lot of amill people who are reformers like Calvinists do hold 'perservance of the saints' like as OSAS called, security salvation.

    Half of amill people are not osas, some of them believe a person could lose spiritual salvation, if they keeping on sinning, and stopped serve the Lord.

    About over 95% of premill teach on OSAS, because of pretrib doctrine reason.

    Over 95% of baptists are premill and pretrib in America so far I aware of.

    Within between 200 years, the doctrine of baptist in America have been changing dramatically because of John Darby. If suppose, Darby not visit America, baptists in America might remain teaching the old fashion doctrine like as Early Christian fathers do.

    I prefer sticky with the Bible than many men's teaching or any religions. I follow the Bible, what it saying than what man saying.- Col. 2:8

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  4. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    By the way, water baptism does not saved us. Water baptism is for obedience to follow Christ after our salvation is the first step to obey Christ.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    We have about every type of "Baptist Bird" on the BB! Historic dispensationalism (biblical view, imho) is hand-and-glove with OSAS.

    I feel sad for those without a Blessed Hope of the imminent return of our Lord.

    I also feel sad for arminian/semi-pelagian work-to-gain or work-to-keep salvation.
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

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    'Blessed hope' is eternal life - Titus 1:2; 2:13; and 3:7.

    I am looking forward for eternal life at Lord's coming that my body shall change into immortality, and will never taste of death forever and ever.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  7. DeafPosttrib

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    Dr. Bob Griffin, please explain Matt. 25:26-30 to me.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20- Amen!
     
  8. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan
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    The first baptists--General Baptist under the leadership of Smyth and Helwys.
     
  9. Squire Robertsson

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    I can see that the two positions are not commonly held in tandem. But that is not to say that a good man can't take them in double harness.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    Yes, Brother P.O.Bill, I've met some of those
    who are posties without eternal security.
    The biggest batch outside Baptists are the Jehovah's
    Witnesses. Only 144,000 of them can make it into
    eternal bliss and there are 1,000,000 (one million)
    of them. Not enough that they work hard to satisfy
    a fixed criteria; they have to work harder for
    slavation than the others

    Recall there are at least two bodies of folk that
    believe in the post-trabulation rapture only:

    1. the pre-millinnial return of Christ (pre-mill)
    2. The millinnium is spiritual, but Christ
    will return at the end of the world (a-mill)

    Both these groups are limited minorites in their
    respective millinnial positions.

    Likewise there seem to be two flavors of insecure
    believers:

    1. you must of your own free will revoke your salvation
    2. you can loose (inadvertadly misplace) your
    salvation by something wrong you might do (comission)
    or fail to do (omission).

    All these positions (and other combinations and other positions)
    are found among Baptist. There is no particular 'denomination'.
    In fact, some Baptists who are postrib and not-secure beleivers
    are also AGAINST "denominations" (and presumably the definition
    that goes with it?).

    [​IMG]
     
  11. DeafPosttrib

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    Rev. 13:9-18 and 14:9-11 is very clear serious warning to us, if any person who worship Antichrist, or received the mark of the beast, will spend eternality punishment.

    Yes, it will be possible for Christians to be deceived - Matt. 24:24. Never know any Christian like as baptist who might would worship Antichrist or receive the mark of the beast, will spend eternality punishment.

    Do not argue with me. Argue with Matt 24:24; Rev. 13:9-18; and 14:9-11

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  12. Plain Old Bill

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    I am not argueing with anybody. My question simply is what Kind of baptist is non-secure in thier salvation and an amillinianailist?I've never heard of such a thing.I just learned on this board that such people exist.
    Deafpostriib you certainly are sincere and vehement in your expression of your beliefs.What kind of church or fellowship do you belong to?
     
  13. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
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    By the way for all of you mid-trip and post-trib guys you are welcome to leave later,as for me and my house we will leave on the first trip.
     
  14. amberrose

    amberrose
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    [​IMG] AMEN bill i'm with you on that
     
  15. Spirit and Truth

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    POB:

    By the way for all of you mid-trip and post-trib guys you are welcome to leave later,as for me and my house we will leave on the first trip.

    S&T:

    Let's take a look at this from a different perspective. If the post tribbers are wrong, and they are spiritually prepared for a post trib rapture, and then get the early bus out, then it is really no problem....BUT..for the pre-trib people, who are not mentally prepared have to stay to the end, it might be a little ..should we say...scary
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    Spirit and Truth: " ... for the pre-trib people, who are
    not mentally prepared have to stay to the end,
    it might be a little ..should we say...scary ... "

    But, a pre-trib person who is also OSAS has no fear.
    Even if the forces of antichrist force the mark upon you,
    you stay saved.

    BTW, i've never seen a postie that I though had a serious
    and workable plan for getting through
    the tribulation period.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    Ed:

    BTW, i've never seen a postie that I though had a serious and workable plan for getting through
    the tribulation period.

    S&T:

    It is the same plan that Noah had, that Daniel had in the lions den, that the three boys had in the fiery furnace, and that the Jews had with the lambs blood on the door posts. Divine intervention and protection. Don't leave home without it.
     
  18. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    Oh, and BTW, Jesus had it too. No one was allowed to lay hands on Him until the appointed time.
     
  19. Ed Edwards

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  20. DeafPosttrib

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    POB,

    I am a truly baptist. I aware there are 95% of IFB people are premill, and 98% of IFB people hold security salvation in America today.

    About 30% of 'baptists' in America are amill, about 70% of 'baptists' are premill. Why? because many baptists are calvinist. Many Reformers are either postmill or amill.

    All reformers hold security salvation in America. Reformed teaches on 'the persevance of the saints' is security salvation same as IFB teaches security salvation.

    I do not agree with IFB people on premill. I agree with Reformers on amill. BUT, I do not agree with both Reformers and IFB on security salvation.

    Assembly of God does teaching on lose salvation. But, I have disagree on many things what Assembly of God believe.

    In fact, all religions in the world are no perfect on the doctrines, God knows.

    I am remain a truly baptist, because I believe in baptized under water with full body is the picture of Romans 6:3-5. Also, I support IFB for preaching against compromising, and separation, even, preaching against sins too. That why I enjoy listen many IFB pastors preaching strong against sins and compromising, also urge Christians to remain stay faithful to the Lord.

    Many IFB pastors do avoid several areas in the Bible, so, they are not perfect, God knows.

    But, I respect many IFB pastors, I do believe they are truly godly. For example, I do admire Dr. John R. Rice, Dr. Curtis Hutson, Dr. Lee Roberson, Dr. Tom Malone, etc. they are truly godly. They love the Lord so much. They are faithful to God. I know all of them are pretrib/premill, do hold security salvation. I disagree on many things what they believe. But, no question, God uses them to saved people and serve the Lord. I am sure that John Rice and Curtis Hutson both are in the heaven with the Lord, not because of OSAS, because of their faithfully serving the Lord.

    I aware that pastors shall face the judgement of Christ more serious than Christians, because pastors have a great responsiblity to guide congregation in the direction of their life. That why God shall judge pastors more serious than Christians.

    I can't judge John Rice, Curtis Hutson, IFB pastors, God knows better than me, God is the justified to judge all people and pastors.

    Myself being to be baptist is NOT the reason, I go to heaven. I go to heaven because of being faithfully and serve the Lord, and repent of sins daily.

    Religions mean nothing to me. We must do is to obey God's Word, and serve the Lord, repent of sins daily, because Christ shall judge us all.

    All religions over the world, have different doctrines, different views, different interpreting the Bible.

    Once, faithful servants of any religions into heaven, there are NO religion in the heaven. All are simple God's children as family.

    Our responsiblity to study the Bible, believing them, obey them, do what God's Word saying. Many of us failed to obey them, many of us mislead them on the way to hell, because of doctrines.

    baptists are not perfect, all religions are not perfect. We all have ONE perfect person is Jesus Christ. We all have ONE perfect book is Bible. The Bible IS THE ONLY ANSWER.

    We all cannot expect that every Christians have the same mind on the Bible, because we all are human. Our understanding is limited. Once, we into heaven, we all shall have SAME mind.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     

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