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Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ps104_33, Mar 26, 2004.
This will shock alot of you, but I think the pope makes a good point here.
Strange that WND is citing 4 year old or olrder letters.
Though I agree, Sunday should be a day of worship and rest. Perhaps not out of adherence to the law, but out of respect for ourselves and the Lord.
Well I'm not shocked. I have no problem with the pope keeping Sunday as his sabbath. Who was the one that changed it?
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
I'll stick with 7th day sabbath. During football season Dallas Cowboys generally play on Sundays or Mondays.
BTW, did you notice the $50,000 reward offered to give scripture stating where 7th day sabbath changed to 1st day of the week sabbath? I read it in the link at the bottom on the artical that you posted (at the bottom of the page).
I thought Monday was considered the first day of the week, not Sunday. I thought Sunday was the last day of the week (therefore, being part of the weekEND). So, not only are we keeping the sabbath holy, but it's also the seventh day.
As the article points out - all sides agree - Sunday is the first day of the week and Saturday is the seventh day.
Jews, Catholics, Protestants all agree on that "one thing" (if nothing else).
So it is "no coincidence" that Jews and Sabbath keeping Christians observe Saturday as the Seventh-day Sabbath - while Christians that choose to honor the "first day" of the week as Resurrection day (on a creation-week 7 day resurrection cycle) choose Sunday as the "First day".
They are correct. Christ rose from the tomb on the first day of the week - and that is Sunday.
The Dies Domini article included in the link above - and the contents of that link itself - make that point abundantly cleaer.
Now that the easy part is over - lets get to the "real" crux of the debate here.
The Catholic argument argues for "observance" of Sunday as the Sabbath - even though it admits it is not the 7th-day Sabbath of the Sabbath commandment.
There are two basic approaches to doing something on Sunday --
#1. Keep it because the RCC has edited the Sabbath commandment so that now it points to the first day instead of the 7th. Use the authority of the Sabbath commandment in terms of God's defining an obligation on mankind to honor the day of His choosing - but make it apply to Sunday.
#2. Keep Sunday as "your own preference" your own "one day out of seven" where "it just so happens" that the day "you choose" is one that has been traditionally chosen through long ages of Christian history.
In that model - nothing about it is "binding" or of an "obligation". Sports, work, shopping etc outside the bounds of church going is "totally up to you" and has not basis at all in the Word of God as in "A command of God TO you to do anytyhing at all".
I often find that "both camps" are represented in the same church with a "bit of confusion" racing in the middle between them.
If you wish to keep the biblical Sabbath, that would be our Friday at sundown until Saturday sundown. This is the biblical day of rest.
If you wish to gather as the early church, there is biblical support that they gathered on the first day of the week, which could be anytime from Saturday at sundown until Sunday sundown.
The Sabbath, setting aside the argument of whether or not it should be observed by Christians, has not been changed. If you want to observe the Sabbath, do it according Scripture. Don't change it to suit yourself or the church.
Sunday sports would not be a problem biblically.
Personally, I don't believe in setting one day aside.
Walking with Christ isn't a one day a week thing. It's an all the time thing.
Imagine if Christ the Creator was actually commanding his people to "only pay attention to God one day a week" at Sinai?
What kind of "new birth" would that have been?
Imagine being in heaven with 4000 years worth of OT saints that "only chose to walk with God one day a week"?
Imagine reading Hebrews 11 - the giants of the faith held up to all NT saints -- and thinking of them as "people that only walked with God one day out of seven"?
Just what kind of "bad idea" was God promoting?
Gershom takes path #2 for his/her treatment of Sunday and is very consistent to say that doing as you please "batter up" with a few hours spent in church is all that is needed for the personnal choice to just-so-happen to pick a seven-day cycl and to pick the resurrection day as the day you just so happen to agree to attend church for an hour or two.
The approach of either the Sabbath is kept or it is not - that Gershom recommends is the most consistent approach.
But as the article points out at the top of this thread - that is not the way the RCC treats this subject, or treated this subject for over 1000 years of Christian history.
We have "Sabbath after Sabbath" church meetings recorded in Acts 13, with no mention of "day one after day one meetings" where Bible teaching is going on. However in Acts 2 we see that they met "every day" to break bread from house to house (at least at first).
As the historic article at the top points out - at some point in time the Christian church kept both days as holy days. (Not just holy hours)