NOBLE ARMY OF "HERETICS"

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by 7-Kids, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. 7-Kids

    7-Kids
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    NOBLE ARMY OF "HERETICS"

    Taken from
    http://www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/NA.html

    Good reading

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    FOREWORD

    Heretics or martyrs - what is the difference? We hope this book will enlighten you.

    A Jesuit priest wrote a booklet several years ago in which he enumerated many heretical groups, some of which fully deserve the name.

    Among these groups were 30 of real interest, starting with the Paulicians in the first century to the Salvation Army in the nineteenth.

    These groups were researched regarding ten different points of doctrine, all of which the priest said were heresies.

    These doctrines are listed below. Next to the belief is given the number of the 30 groups studied who subscribed to that particular teaching. Then, as you read this book, we will look more closely at many of these groups, and see what the scriptural conclusion must be: martyr or heretic?

    Belief in Justification by Faith 21

    Reject Transubstantiation 16

    Reject Tradition 16

    Reject Purgatory 20

    Reject Praying to Saints 19

    Reject the Sacrifice of the Mass 18

    Reject Celibacy of the Priesthood 18

    Reject the Authority of the Pope 19

    Reject the Veneration of the Cross 20

    Reject the use of Images 20

    If accurate records were available as to what the religious groups on question really believed, the number would have been even higher. Some groups are recorded as only having one heretical belief, or in some cases two or three; whereas, in actual fact, they possibly rejected the whole dogmatic structure of Romanism.

    The theory of Transubstantiation, which is central to the Mass, was not formally decreed by a Council until 1215, so that would account why some of the earlier "heresies" did not reject it.
     
  2. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    Six Kids,

    Your quote:

    "The theory of Transubstantiation, which is central to the Mass, was not formally decreed by a Council until 1215, so that would account why some of the earlier "heresies" did not reject it."


    That is interesting to know as the importance that Cathoics put upon the "actual body and blood" known as transubstantiation is a focal point of their religion. I've been told that without eating his body and drinking his blood, there is no life in us...(and they give us scripture to prove that point). Now compare that with the fact that Catholics didn't even practice that belief until 1215, and that can only leave us with the assumption that no Catholics were ever saved until after 1215.....
    Right ?

    Singer
     
  3. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Singer,

    "You've got mail"

    I just sent you a "note", replying to your note to me back in July. I didnt know about the note thing until I accidently saw it today! :eek: :D

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  4. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just couldnt believe it when I saw in the Council of Trent where the Catholic Church officially curses everyone who has accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    An important part of the gospel is that we are justified by faith alone, and not by faith plus commandment keeping. Yet the CC says...

    If anyone shall say that the ungodly man is justified by faith only so as to understand that nothing else is required that may cooperate to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is in no wise necessary for him to be prepared and disposed by the motion of his own will ... let him be accursed (Canon 9).

    If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed (Canon 12).

    Canon 8. If anyone says that by the sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred ex opere operato, but that faith alone in the divine promise is sufficient to obtain grace, let him be anathema.

    CANON XX.-If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema.


    And of course here they are cursing anyone who believes in eternal security(as I do), which would probably include the vast majority of Southern Baptists and most Presbyterians...

    Canon 16. If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema

    If those things make me a heretic in the eyes of the Catholic chuch, then I'm one happy heretic :D , because I am on my way to heaven! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  5. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's not forget Canon 1:

    "If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."


    Trent cleary advocated the scriptural formula for salvation, that is faith working through love all rendered by God's grace.
     
  6. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks D28guy.....I got the mail!

    (Justified Saint Quote from Canon)

    "If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."

    (Singer)
    Then those "works" are useless to obtain the gift of eternal life with. But,........if I understand the cunning Catholic approach to this topic, that quote is also saying that God's grace WITHOUT works is not sufficient either.

    *Of this they boast!!
     
  7. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who cares what the Council of Trent says or the Codes of fellow-fallible men.

    I thought we in our search for God want to know what He says. And what He proclaims as truth is found in the Bible. Thus, justification by faith in Jesus Christ. [Romans 5:1]

    Are the collection of men's ideas and councils now more important than what He has said and is saying to us today through His Word, the Bible?
     
  8. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    (Ray)
    "Who cares what the Council of Trent says or the Codes of fellow-fallible men."

    (Singer)
    Ray, I feel there is a need to know the wrong teachings of various sects, as it is something to weigh against the truth; which we also need to know. I think my hearing and reading of those Catholic beliefs increases my ability to inform others who might be feeling a tendency to join them. Coming out of what may be a cult myself (that I was born in to...and did not join by choice), I came on this board to find out more of their beliefs and doctrines. Seeing it in print from their words strengthens my faith in God; as it exposes their misinterpretations. I see the wrong in it by having it exposed, so I commend those who have made the important choice to leave the RCC and to inform the rest of us behind their reasoning. Afterall, some entity has to be the Whore of Babylon.....let's find out who it is and WHY !!!

    Let's give them a hand.

    I also respect your professional approach and abilities (gift) of promoting and revealing the truth from the bible.
    There is a balance and I feel we need both.

    Thanks Ray,
    Singer
     
  9. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    14,452
    Likes Received:
    0
    I took a quick look at the site - looks interesting!

    Dan
     
  10. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Singer, since God's grace gives and enables good works your distinction seems misleading, that is a distinction that Catholics wouldn't make. You may read into the text what you like but the Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by grace alone.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Looks like good material. With all those centuries of murder and torture - you know there would have to be a number of Christian groups whose stories will be told "in heaven" - without the piles of accusations laid on them by the criminals guilty of killing/torturing them.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    J.S,
    I was informed by a very vocal Catholic that we are NOT saved by faith alone, but by the perseverance of good works! Can you believe that?


    Singer
     
  13. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I can actually. [​IMG]
     
  14. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    My sympathy!

    My bible says we're NOT saved by works.
    I must not have a Catholic bible.

    Singer
     
  15. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mine says something pretty close to it:

    "See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24

    Is this in Protestant Bibles?
     
  16. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure is, but we were talking about salvation; not justification.

    Singer
     
  17. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, now we are getting somewhere. So we are justified by works and NOT by faith alone then?
     
  18. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    JustifiedSaint,

    You said...

    Ah yes. "Grace" alone. And that gives you some leeway to insert works where it does not belong.

    Do you, or the CC, agree with the truth that we are justified before God by FAITH alone?

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  19. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, we are justified before God through faith in Christs all sufficient sacrifice, and that is faith alone.

    Regarding the passage in James, here is a very enlightening word...

    Context.

    It clears up so much confusion.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  20. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    "FAITH" must be properly defined. And if you define it as nothing more than "belief in Jesus Christ as your Personal Savior" the Bible will "spew you from Jesus' mouth"
     

Share This Page

Loading...