Non-cal "prevenient grace" or Cal "effectual calling"

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by agedman, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Some would attempt to blend these, but they are two completely different coins, not two sides of the same.

    Non-cal "prevenient grace" (preceding grace) has no Scriptural foundation, and those who have the non-cal thinking must exalt humankind into a position in which God is subservient to what man decides to accomplish.

    Two threads on "non-cal view" has shown that statement to be true.

    The Cal view is that of the "effectual call." In brief, it holds that the Father calls all that will come to him.

    The effectual call is supported in the following passages:

    Romans 8:
    8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus....
    28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
    1 Corinthians 1:
    2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
    3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, 5 that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Galatians 1:
    6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
    Ephesians 4:
    Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
    These are offered but there are far more which point to what Cal's commonly refer to as the effectual calling of God.


    Such verses as found in Thessalonians 2, 2 Timothy 1, and that great passage found in 2 Peter 5:
    6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time, 7 casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. 8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. 10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.11 To Him be dominion forever and ever. Amen.
    Philippians 1:
    27 Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; 28 in no way alarmed by your opponents—which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God. 29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.


    I find it sufficient that I have posted IN CONTEXT the support for the Scriptural view of the effectual call.


    Believers,

    Conclusively the "prevenient grace" thinking of the non-cal is deceitfully lacking any true Scriptural support.

    Conclusively that the effectual call thinking of the Cal view is supported not by a few, but many NT passages.
     
  2. Winman

    Winman
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    Your argument is circular reasoning. If God calls a person, and that person comes to God, you declare that to be effectual calling. And it was effectual, because the person came when called.

    But not everybody comes when God calls. This does not mean God did not sincerely call them, but the person refused to listen and refused to come to God.

    Isa 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

    Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

    God was sincerely calling these persons, but they would not listen and CHOSE to do evil.

    Mat 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
    2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
    3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
    4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
    5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
    6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
    7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

    God also called these persons, but they would not come. God meant it when he called them, he demanded they come, but they would not listen, so he burned up their city.

    This is the Jews and speaking of 70 A.D..
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    The Arminian view is that God "draws ALL mankind to him" John 12:32 not just the "arbitrarily selected few" of Matt 7.

    Thus the Calvinist model makes God the cause of His own lament and the Arminian model does not.

    The effectual call is supported in the following passage is based on foreknowledge of the choices that men make in the future to that call.


    Romans 8:
    8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus....
    28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
    Same thing in Romans 11.

    Thus in the Arminian model of scripture - God is not the cause of His own Lament over the lost.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

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