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And so... is this God moving the heart in harmony with His own "whosoever will" Gospel in the Bible - or are you suggesting that this text can be bent to make God the cause of His own lament?

In Rev 3 "I STAND at the door and knock - if ANYONE hears my voice AND OPENS the door - I WILL come in"

In John 1 "HE Came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not

Here you have the perfect sovereign election and choice of God -- choosing Israel and then choosing to the Savior who "Came to HIS OWN" His own sovereignly chosen nation.

How sad then "they rejected God's PURPOSE for them" - Luke 7

NKJV
29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.


NASB
29 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

John 1 "He came to HIS OWN and His OWN received Him not"

Like the issue with God as the "cause of His own lament" this is another Radioactive problem for Calvinism.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. Rom 11:5-8

Why did they not receive him?

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. V-11

 

BTW I do not consider myself to be Calvinist.

Salvation is by the election of God with God doing the electing and the saving.

Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. R4:7 Covered by the blood of his Son born of woman. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. R4:8

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
And so... is this God moving the heart in harmony with His own "whosoever will" Gospel in the Bible - or are you suggesting that this text can be bent to make God the cause of His own lament?

In Rev 3 "I STAND at the door and knock - if ANYONE hears my voice AND OPENS the door - I WILL come in"

In John 1 "HE Came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not



Here you have the perfect sovereign election and choice of God -- choosing Israel and then choosing to the Savior who "Came to HIS OWN" His own sovereignly chosen nation.

How sad then "they rejected God's PURPOSE for them" - Luke 7

NKJV
29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.


NASB
29 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

John 1 "He came to HIS OWN and His OWN received Him not"

Like the issue with God as the "cause of His own lament" this is another Radioactive problem for Calvinism.

Turns out the answer is in the text you leave out of Romans 11 when you skip down to vs 5 for the start.

Rom 11:
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Election in vs 5 is based on the foreknowledge of vs 2.

2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

Provoking to jealousy could only "save some of them" according to Paul in Romans 11 in the part you are leaving out.

13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.

. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.


22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

Romans 11 is not the home run for Calvinism that some have imagined. (Not saying you are Calvinist just that the text has a lot in it that does not fit the Calvinist model)

in Christ,

Bob

 

Let'e look at this verse:

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

by unbelief they were broken off, and thou hast stood by faith; be not high-minded, but be fearing; YLT

First let's address, "faith," by which some stood. I assume this is, "the faith," that makes righteous and or justifies as here?

And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we,

That is, "the faith," by which they stood. "The faith," which had moved them from being in unbelief, of being under sin, unto being declared righteous, no longer under sin but under grace see Rom. 6:14 and preceding from v9 because it is the resurrected Jesus Christ from being dead when, "the faith," came.

See 1 Cor 15:17 for proof of this: and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins; YLT

Faith does not exist if Christ is not raised from the dead. You would still be under sin, still in unbelief.

Gal 3:22 but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing.

In Gal 3:2 Paul was reminding them they had received the Spirit because they had heard of, the faith of Christ, Of Jesus Christ having crucified among you and of him having been raised from the dead. See verse 1 and Gal 2:21 The grace of God that would be voided had righteousness come by the law would have been the raising of the dead Christ and as shown before there also would have been no faith to be heard of.

What you think about something isn't the faith of you, the faith of you is the resurrected Jesus Christ of Nazareth. God elected and gave the Spirit, see verse 22 of Gal 3, to those who stood in, "that faith," making them believers and the others remained in unbelief.

I pray this is as clear to you as it is to me.