Non-Marital Relations cause a Marriage

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Oct 15, 2002.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 19:4-6

    "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

    1 Corinthians 6:16

    Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

    There you have it, the Bible says it is not out of line with God's teachings for a couple to have marital relations before they get married. The marrriage is the 'union', not the ceremony.
     
  2. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not playing Devil's advocate, nor am I really joking. I have had this point brought up on another board and thought I'd get opinions here about the validity of the argument.
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's not what the Bible saying. It's saying that sex is not a simply physical pleasurable act. It's got deep spiritual and covanental meaning. Therefore we endeavour to keep it sacred and where it belongs.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    If your thesis is correct, then the sin of fornication or adultery would not be a sin at all; it would merely be the formation of another marriage. Therefore, you have your answer: The "act" is not the marriage.
     
  5. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    It wouldn't be adultry as in cheating on a spouse if the people aren't married.

    As to the fornication issue, I'm not sure. I'm not very familiar on the topic.
     
  6. eric_b

    eric_b
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://home.nc.rr.com/robotplot/tiny_eri

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's very simple:

    Heb 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

    Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
    Pronunciation: "for-n&-'kA-sh&n
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    : consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY

    The only people who make this issue complicated are people who want to get around God's rule that sexual intimacy is only for a husband and wife to experience within marriage.

    Eric

    [ October 15, 2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: eric_b ]
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the answer is made clear when one follows simple rules of interpretation and reads the following verses.....Flee fornication!

    Cheers,

    Jim

    [ October 15, 2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
     
  8. Daniel Vollmer

    Daniel Vollmer
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Hi everyone, I know this may be off the issue a little bit but as a Catholic I am curious about the protestant position on Divorce. In light of what Jesus said in Matthew 5:32 But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is invalid) causes her to commit adultry, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultry. What to protestants think of the clause regarding invalid marriage and what constitutes an invalid marriage?

    Also in Matthew 19:4-9 He said in reply, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female' and said 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate." They said to him, "Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss her"? He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (uless the marrage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultry.

    Again I am curious as to the protesant viewpoint on this issue. Do you consider divorce ok and in what cases is it justified and in what cases is not. As a Catholic we view divorce wrong. I know we have annulments but that is in extreme cases when it can be proved that a valid sacramental marriage did not take place.

    With such a high divorce rate in this country, it just seems that so many people are remarried and living a sinful life without even knowing it. This includes many Catholics who remarry outside the church.

    Thank in advance for your opinions.

    Yours in Christ
    Daniel @--}---
     
  9. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've always believed that the only valid reason for a divorce is if the husband or wife commits adultry.
     
  10. Glorious

    Glorious
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2002
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was told the other day, that back in the time when the advice on divorce was written ... that there was only one condition for divorce.
    That was ...... if a woman was not a virgin when she and the man married ..... he had to discover this fact and discard her within 24 hours!
    He could NOT wait for some time, and enjoy her sexually, then later down the track discard her.

    If it was NOT done in the 24 hour period frame, then he had to accept her.

    This was apparently the ONLY condition for divorce.

    All this was told to me by a minister a few days ago. Maybe there is some sort of historic back up to it?
     
  11. Daniel Vollmer

    Daniel Vollmer
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    One reason I ask this question regarding divorce is that due to the high rate of divorce these days it seems that less than 50% of marriages remain. It seems to me that all divorced people who remarry are commiting adultry and this separates them from God. How does one who is divorced and a christian justify this act so that they feel they are not living in sin. I am not condeming anyone just trying to understand what a divorced person is thinking. I am married and can not imagine divorcing my wife.

    Yours in Christ
    Daniel
     
  12. Glorious

    Glorious
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2002
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes Daniel, I thank God often for a marriage where I am extremely happy.

    However, there are truly some very sad cases.

    Also, divorce seems to be one of those slightly "grey" areas in the Bible.
    It MUST be grey, because every church seems to have their theory on what it means!!!!

    Some things are black and white. Jesus spoke them and thats that!
    I wonder if God leaves grey areas for us to work a few things out ourselves?
    For example, if we did everything to a book of rules, would there be any need to listen for Gods guidence? We need that in our bond with God.

    Off track a bit, I s'pose!!!
     
  13. Daniel Vollmer

    Daniel Vollmer
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Hi Glorious,

    I can see your point and I know I have had ups and downs in my marriage, but as a Catholic we had a more strick understanding of divorce, very little gray area. The only way we feel we can get out of a marriage is through annulment and that means proving the marriage never existed, that one or both parties did not have the right frame of mind when entering into marriage.

    I think that is the only acception mentioned in the Bible and I was just looking for the protestant perspective and where do they get there acceptions to the rule so to speak. Thanks for you comments.

    Yours in Christ
    Daniel
     
  14. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    If two teenagers are involved sexually in the church should they be married by the church?
     
  15. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ben W!

    They shouldn't be married by the church--they should be diciplined by the church!! Along with mom and dad! I didn't get my license to preach from K-Mart!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  16. Multimom

    Multimom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay may not be the real point. Divorce is never "okay" and anyone ever affected by it is rarely left "okay".

    I believe that as Christians we must always hold high the standard, one man, one woman for life, but we must minister to reality.

    Many have stated that the only reason allowed by scripture is 'adultry'. Currently I don't have the time or inclination to search out the scriptural address on this one, but there is the reference, "If the unbelieveing spouse wants to leave let them leave and the believer is not bound to that union."

    In my mind there are a few areas where we must accept reality and know that these are valid reasons.

    1. Physical abuse (often not minor but severe and in many cases leading to death)

    2. Adultry (even this one can be over come if the offended party wants to reconcile)

    3. A drug addicted spouse. (dangerous to everyone they come in contact with, family, children, friends, etc. The legal ramification of this one is that if the addict is found in possession and the spouse is with them, the spouse is also included in the possession charge just as any acquaintence would be.)

    While I know that divorce is devistating, I also know that there are reality times when there is no safe alternative.

    And for those of you who love to wag your finger at those of us who are divorced and remarried, remember that you probably also believe that God won't honor that marriage, but I know many couples for whom God has done just that. I am a divorcee and God has honored not only my second marriage, but he has honored my husband in ministry and in favor with man. He presents himself as a man of God and I as his wife. We do not keep it hidden but God has given me a way to minister to those women who are also in a great deal of pain.

    God can and does honor second marriages that are adhered to within the confines of scripture and I feel that those who deem it to be the "unforgiveable sin" need to get with God and build a bridge if you know what I mean.

    God doesn't remember my divorce because I confessed that and so when I talk to Him about my "second marriage" His response is "what second marriage". Either we believe God removes it as far as the east is from the west or we don't.
     
  17. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    128
    So back to the original question...and adding to it.
    Could a Pastor/bishop/elder who has "sown his oats" as a youth, still qualify as a Pastor?

    [ November 07, 2002, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Deacon ]
     
  18. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought sins were forgiven. Only Satan tries to hold us accountable for sins in our past.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I thought sins were forgiven. Only Satan tries to hold us accountable for sins in our past.</font>[/QUOTE]I recall you making this statement before in another thread.
    Romas 6:23, The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    There are always consequences to sin. Try taking an overdose of heroin and tell me that there are no consequences to sin. The drunk driver who kills the pedestrian will face the consequence for his sin. Will his sin be forgiven? By God, yes, if he confesses it. By others? Perhaps, if they are forgiving people. Perhaps not. He will ive with that forever. Some will live with the result of a car accident (of their own fault forever--with paralysis--the consequence of their own sin. Their sin may be forgiven but they live with the consequence.

    The same holds true in divorce. You live with the consequence of splitting up a family forever. The sin may be forgiven. You live with the results of it forever. And that alone may disqualify one from the ministry.
    DHK
     
  20. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are always consequences to sin. Try taking an overdose of heroin and tell me that there are no consequences to sin. The drunk driver who kills the pedestrian will face the consequence for his sin. Will his sin be forgiven? By God, yes, if he confesses it. By others? Perhaps, if they are forgiving people.

    If they are not forgiving people, then they are not going to heaven. The question was in context of the church, therefore I assume the question is in context of only the elect.

    He will ive with that forever. Some will live with the result of a car accident (of their own fault forever--with paralysis--the consequence of their own sin. Their sin may be forgiven but they live with the consequence.

    Material consequences are of no matter. The Spiritual is the only thing that is important.

    The same holds true in divorce. You live with the consequence of splitting up a family forever. The sin may be forgiven. You live with the results of it forever. And that alone may disqualify one from the ministry.

    That may be true, but that does not mean it is what God desires.
     

Share This Page

Loading...