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Featured Norm Geisler teaches Pelagianism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected.
     
  2. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Actually even MacArthur has been rejected in Reformed churches. I once went to a strong reformed church and they did not like MacArthur for some reason. And no I do not agree with everything he teaches for I compare him to the Bible as that is my gold standard. For example in some ways I think MacArthur gets too dogmatic and why I will tune into Charles Stanley whom is more light and perhaps has more grace.

    For example MacArthur will refer to those in disobedience as "false converts" and this may be true, but it may be the person is in disobedience, or immature in the faith. This does not make them a false convert. Lordship salvation is not always correct and may not be correct. I notice that Erwin Lutzer and Charles Stanley teach differently in this manor.
     
  3. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Thats what I thought by reading CBF. He clearly says that man can redeem himself and faith has not been given only to the elect.
     
  4. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    What book did you get these quotes from?
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    1) Calvinism teaches man has no capacity to seek God and receive the gospel. False. The second, third and fourth soils of Matthew 13 were seeking God and received the gospel.

    Yes election can be humbling, but God tells us that he has chosen some by Grace entirely apart from merit or even ability to receive grace, so pride will be eliminated.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Say what :laugh:
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Who else has it been given to pray tell?
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I find him a stick in the mud to....and sneaky. He was invited to a conference that the Presbyterian RC Sproll was having & unbenonced to Sproll, he got on the podium and started preaching Credo Baptism (knowing full well that most of the audience was Pedo/infant baptism believers.
     
  9. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    He has a strong passion to preach the truth and preach against error. Its a shame he did not preach Dispensationalist theology at that conference and endorse his end times books. I am sure that would have made everyone mad! Regardless Mac is not God and is a man. He is far from perfect.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    But he is devious.
     
    #30 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2013
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    http://www.normangeisler.net/KnowGod/09-RighteousnessFromGod.html

    http://www.normgeisler.com/articles/theology/2010-EpigeneticsSolvesTheologicalProblems.htm

     
    #31 Van, Aug 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2013
  12. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    For what its worth, and not that this will make sense to some who love polarizing positions, but those who don't hold to Reformed theology are not, automatically semipelagians. Though the moniker gets cast on too many who disagree with Reformed theology, the truth of the matter is that almost no one believes in semipelagianism and no one (with a few notable exceptions) believes in Pelagianism.

    These are all misinformed ad hominem attacks that seek to discredit someone without actually engaging with them.

    To be a semipelagian, one must hold to a view of salvation that is still beyond syngerism and focuses on man's will contravening God's will.

    For more information and an adequate Baptist understanding of semipleganism please read: http://sbctoday.com/2012/06/07/semi-pelagianism-a-plea-for-clarity-and-charity/
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    From CBF, Appendix 12, page 294.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Please provide the quote of Dr. Geisler which says man can redeem himself, and faith is not a gift given to the elect.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for posting this.
     
  16. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    Is anyone going to provide proof that Norman Geisler is a semi-Pelagianist? Short of proof all that is left is gossip.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If we define semi-Pelagianist as: To be a semipelagian, one must hold to a view of salvation that is still beyond synergism and focuses on man's will contravening God's will.

    Using that definition, the quotes I provided "prove" Dr. Geisler is not semipelagian.

    Since Norm believes in the doctrine of "illumination" he puts the horse before the cart, i.e. God provides the needed help from the get/go, unlike semi-Pelagian doctrine.
     
    #37 Van, Aug 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2013
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    According to The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (2nd edn), the semi-Pelagianism of the 4th and 5th centuries “maintained that the first steps toward the Christian life were ordinarily taken by the human will and that Grace supervened only later.”
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    That is right, and so since Geisler believes in the doctrine of illumination, where God is involved prior to any step by man, the charge of semi-Pelagianism is shown to be false and slanderous.
     
  20. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Semipelagianism was declared heresy by the Second Council of Orange (529).
     
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