Featured Normalized Heterosexual Fornication, Lust, etc.

We seem bogged in the semantics of religious jargon. We need to reconsider the doctrine of depravity.

Mankind is depraved, by nature. He is not born sinning but with the nature to sin, which he does with much gusto in most regions. Sin is pleasurable--for a season. But the wages of sin is death, physical and spiritual. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. This is very uncomplicated, straight forward, a little child can understand. Theologians have great difficulty. See John 3:5 and context.

The natural man does not go away at salvation, in fact it creates a warfare with the regenerated spirit. The mind is also unregenerated, creating more warfare. The process of sanctification takes a life time. Sometime we stumble. The spirit is willing but the flesh weak.

We have a tendancy to water down what sin might be. It is not what is wrong with something but rather what is right with it?

"Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" takes care of most every eventuality.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

This is WHY......

I never like responding to Zaac...he has his mind made up [a hidden agenda], and waits to pounce on those who fall into his trap(s)!

And one more thing as to your comment: "Same gender marriage isn't gonna put anymore morally disgusting stuff in your path than was already there." If you think what we are observing now is bad, now that gays have won this battle, in California, we will overt displays of affection like never before. When a portion of society feel they are shunned or looked down upon, they tend to cover up or avoid open displays of their particular sin. Now that they are more accepted than before, those who kept their sin under cover will, in fact, begin to test the waters of social acceptance and freely display their sin.

Example: If America legalized prostitution, we would see it for sale in window-fronts like in some Europen and Asain societies. Right now, prostitution is not legal, and it is covert in its public displays for fear of breaking laws, and public shame [which I admit is not what it once was].

Overt displays of same-sex affection will be rampant. It isn't right now, but when I worked for the state of CAlifornia and had to take several trips to San Francisco several times a year, I was sickened with the outright display of same-sex affection taking place everywhere I went in the city [restaurants, gyms, sidewalks, stores]. You and I both know that homosexuality is not shunned, socially, in Frisco, and I firmly believe, now that this round of same-sex marriage has gone to the LGBT movement, we will see more couples overtly and openly testing the waters by displaying affection througout the state.

Today, our television coverages are full of coverage on gays being married all over the state. This is BIG news, and I guess according to what you said at the top of this OP, I should turn off the television in order avoid this form of sin.

ZAAC, do me a favor and Christ-like courtesy, by not taking my argument apart, sentence-by-sentence....as I do not really agree with your reasoning [and I say that out of love]? I believe you have one view, and I have another, and never the twain shall meet! You have made your views clear, and I believe I have too! So save some cyber space by just accepting the fact that your views and mine are on opposite sides of the aisle; like the family to the groom versus the family to the bride. Or, fans of one football team sitting in the east bleachers while the visiting team sits in the west-side bleachers. In other words, the divide between how you view same-gender sin and how I view it are too far apart to ever strike an agreement!

 

same sex marriage an Abomination, as God already has defined to him what is real marriage, and THAt is not it!

 

For Zaac!

Zaac said, "As it stands, I'm STILL under the impression that you think I'm saying something that I am not. But oh well."

So why don't you tell me what you are saying to the church, regarding same-sex marriage, and, in the eyes of the church - per the Biblical World View of the Scriptures - how, we as believers are to react to those who are infringing on the holy and sacred act of marriage?

I view your views as sympathetic to same-sexers; and that you believe the church needs to cut them spiritual slack!

So, right here and now, tell all of us on this board just what you agenda is when it comes to the homosexuality, same-sex marriage, practicing homosexuals in church positions such as pastors, deacons, and Sunday School teachers?

Why, when believers voice their dissatisfaction and proclaim their opposition to anything the LGBT movement is proposing, you jump in and make issues out of heterosexual fornication, etc.

Are you a gay sympathizer? That is my question to you, as it seems like it, in you round-house approach to the topic, where you never actually say anything about anything, other than try to pass the "guilt-trip" back to those who I think you see as "homophobic?"

So, instead of you asking the question(s), in order to take our responses apart, sentence-by-sentence; spen the time [as much as needed] to explain EXACTLY where you heart is when it comes to this topic.

Then I will not be inclined to write you anylonger, because I will finally see beyond what I see as a hidden agenda.

Thanks Zaac. I don't mean to come across hardcore towards you. But you stated it was I, who didn't really understand what you were saying. :thumbs:

So, go at it.....leave no stone unturned! Let the board know what your mission in life is regarding homosexuals and the Word of God, and you apparent ongoing and running disagreement with members on the board who oppose same-sex marriage and practicing - unrepentant/unremorseful - gays from serving active roles in our church. The place that is supposed to be holy and sanctified!!!

 

Welll Said.....

:wavey: I may have been confused....but thanks to the Lord; I am no longer confused, lost or headed in the wrong direction in my spiritual walk. I appreciate your attempts to unconfuse me as to your somewhat confusing arguments born of dissatisfaction and judgement against those of us, whom you are confused with because you seem to believe that we do not place heterosexual sins on the same plain as homosexual sins!

I did try to say what I said in Agape love. If you are offended, or if I stepped on your toe, a little tooooooo hard, please accept my heart-felt apology! I know we are both fighting the same war and the same enemy - the father of lies!

We may both be looking at this war from different parallels, but, when all is said and done, we roll up our sleeves and pitch in to defeat sin at its root cause [the flesh]. Shalom!

 

Righteousdude2, well said, my Brother.

I can't speak for anyone on this board, other than myself. Your response does represent the view that I didn't have the words to frame with regards to this issue.

Zacc, right or wrong on my part, your position came across as someone stirring a pot of muddy water. Stirring up the sediment in order to cloud the issue of even more mud shoveled into the pot. A pot that we must swim in until our Saviour calls us home. Giving "official approval" to what God calls un-natural and an abomination is like a mountain of mud landsliding into our pot. Especially as a layman, I may not be able to clean up the dirty water in our pot, but I sure can try to pile up sandbags to hold some of that additional mud at bay.

 

Again, Another attempt to confuse the issues!

You said > "When is the last time you've heard a church talking about putting kids out who are engaged in heterosexual sex?"

I don't know about other pastors, [and I wish one or two would jump in here and say what I'm going to say] but, as a youth pastor and senior pastor, I have asked teens, young adults and even couples living in and practicing fornication or adultery, to let me pray for them after counseling.

~ And, here's something you didn't expect ~​

If those persons or that person did not repent, quit the sinful activity, and get back on the Narrow Path, they were REMOVED from the church, just like the Bible says to do in 2 Cor. 6:17 (NLT), "When is the last time you've heard a church talking about putting kids out who are engaged in heterosexual sex?"

Jehovah also reminds those who continue to practice an ungodly lifestyle (Is. 59:1-2) to, "Listen! The Lord’s arm is not too weak to save you, nor is his ear too deaf to hear you call.
It’s your sins that have cut you off from God. Because of your sins, he has turned away and will not listen anymore."

I think there are plenty of Scriptures that back up the shepherds decision to remove sinners from the flock, when those who conitune to sin, ignore attempts to be reach for the Kingdom!

Like I said, I don't know about others, nor do I speak for other pastors, but, as the leader, it is my number one priority to separate the chafe from the wheat in order to protect the flock.

So, to answer your question, or more like refute your point, I don't care if the person is a heterosexual or homosexual sinner, if they fail to respond to the truth of His Word, they will have to move on.

I believe Jesus showed us the right way to handle those who rebel and refuse to welcome the teaching of His truth, that, "If any household or town refuses to welcome you or listen to your message, shake its dust from your feet as you leave. I tell you the truth, the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah will be better off than such a town on the judgment day." Matthew 10:14-15 (NLT)

Harsh method(s), but it is according to Scripture. I would not only do this....I have done it. There is nothing worse than an over-sexed, out-of-control teen [male or female], preying on the flock of teens in the youth group. That cancer must be cut off at the roots, after all attempts to refocus them fails; and there are times our best attempts will in fact, FAIL!

You said >"There's a double standard because "homosexuality" is the church's pet "sin."

I do not believe that. And like Oltimer said - you are stirring the mud of the pot, and I do not know why? Let's just say that your words become more curious with each attempt to counter me....

ONE last time: SIN is SIN! No church is taking aim at one over another. If it did or does, it will be judged accordingly. Just re-read the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation!

And I am sorry that I BORE you! :laugh:

 

gay sexual relations are unnatural, and God sees them in a different light than fornication and adultary, for while ALL are sexual sins, the homosexual act is a pervsion of what God intended in creation, in institution of marriage, as a representation of Christ and the Church, one bond, and NOT same sex bonding!

 

You know them by their fruits

You said >So the parents or the kids came and told you they were still in the activity? Cause I'd like to know. This is new territory if the parents told on the kids and you kickec the kids out while the parents were still attending.<

I say: After talking with the kids and parents [if, in fact, the kids' parents attended the church], I'd keep a close watch on their behaviors. If they continued to demonstrate the kind of behaviors that raised the "red flag" in the first place, they'd get another private session, and be told that they have not shown any change or made any move to change, and until they did, they would have to seek fellowship elsewhere.

We are looking a sin, and when we say to the person, your sins are forgiven, NOW GO AND SIN NO MORE! However, you see no change in the language, actions and spirit, there'd be no need to draw this out.

BTW - there were times members would come and complain about my style of leadership or preaching, and demand I change, or they'd find another church. Imagine their shock when I'd pull out the yellow pages right in front of them, and help them locate a few viable alternatives to consider for a new church home.

And thanks for still loving my "boring" ways and mannerisms! :smilewinkgrin:

 

Do you agrre with Jesus that ALL Homosexual sex and practice is forbidden, immoral, unnatural, and sin?

That the person to be really saved would , by the grace of God, either be celebete, or else becomehetro in relationships?

 

Is there any sexual act that is a sin within the bonds of marriage?

 

God Himself has declared that homosexual acts and practices are unnatural, so if a straight commits fornication, and a gay person sexual acts, God does indeed see them dirrefently, as while BOTH are sin, one is done in a natural intended fashion, other unnatural perverted fashion!

And are you advocating gay persons do NOT cease their lifestyle IF they are claiming to be saved now?