Not of works?

Reread where I said I've already answered that to my satisfaction. You need to read it until you understand what I said. It is as plain as day, friend.

Of course you don't want to answer my questioning of your fallacious statement. You are wrong, so you avoid it.

Plainly? It's false teaching.

Not sinning for (to obtain) salvation was never the way. Ever.

Where did you get this idea "not sinning for salvation was the old way - we are under a different Covenant"?


:thumbs:

 

I went back and read the OP because sometimes we get greatly sidetracked in our discussion. If I understand the point of view in the OP correctly is that a church oath is usurping the substitutionary work of Christ.

Please correct me if I’m wrong.

My question now is who is the oath for? Is the oath for those that are truly saved? Or is it to protect the church form people that desire membership but have come up short of the saving grace of God? We as ministers have one thing to go on, and that is a candidate’s experience of grace that they are willing to tell the church, nothing more nothing less. BTW my home church does not have a written oath. But, we ask candidates if they are willing to abide by our rules, orders and articles of faith.

 

Read my initial response to the post.

It's not that difficult to find my answer.

It's right there.

 

There is a context to the churches desire to place this in their articles or whatever.

Perhaps smoking and drinking have ruined the testimony of this church? Perhaps the pastor is attempting to make this a church issue right up front to change the culture there?

Having them sign this "oath" has nothing to do with salvation, or working for salvation by any means, and is the opposed to, and not similar to the fallacy of targus believing that OT teaches or taught a salvation by works, but is nstead an attempt to instill hoiness by principle to this local body of believers.

Again, I would like to think there is a context and reason for this.

 

I totally agree. But would you agree that it takes the spirit of Christ to instill true holiness in the local body of believers. You can have them sign every oath and confession of faith ever created and it will not save the unsaved.

 

To answer these other questions is to get off track.

Answer mine, I'll answer yours, then we can both go off track together.

:smilewinkgrin:

:tongue3:

 

I agree whole-heartedly about that brother. It is all Him.

Perhaps the signing of this was a coming together of the church, in unity, to put that stigma behind them? I've seen weirder things than this.

I also desire prayer for myself that Christ would do just that in my life. Holier. More like Him.

:jesus:

 

Its called legalism plain and simple. Simply not smoking or drinking is only the beginning, it never stops.

Such a covenant is fruitless and pointless since such abstinence cannot save you anyhow.

 

It would be a stupid oath to require but it would not undermine the substitutionary work of Christ unless the oath you had to sign said something like "I commit to abstain from alcohol and smoking because it is necessary for salvation."

 

You are off topic and very deceptive at that. I am going to close this thread for that reason. Here is the OP:

First: You use my name, supposedly quote me, and then use the word "oaths" in connection with me. I never used the word "oath." I clarified myself only a couple posts later, saying that some churches had covenants, and advised you to look up what a church covenant was before continuing in this conversation. As it is you didn't do that.

You have continued this thread ignorantly. You have misaligned me and Baptist churches alike. Who said that Baptist churches take oaths not to smoke and drink? Did I? NO. Until you understand what a church covenant is you don't have a clue what you are talking about and all that is said in this thread is built on a false premise. Baptist churches that I know of do not have oaths in order to join. Many constitutions have a church covenant. I told you that. But you remain ignorant. I stopped spoon-feeding my children once they became toddlers, that is when they grew out of infancy. When will you get to that stage? Do your homework. Until you understand what a church covenant is you will never be able to carry on this conversation with any degree of intelligence.