On the "Chosen" topic, "Iconoclast" red-linedme like a teacher correcting a child's term paper! This is why I try to stay out of these ridiculous; no one wins, debates. Each of you who post a strong opinion and refuse to budge, are in a way saying to the other person(s) on this forum that YOU have a direct line to God, and that YOUR understanding (theology) of Scripture is the ONLY right interpretation. :laugh: Man....me thinks, that there are going to be a whole lot of folks totally throttled when they finally get to heaven and see how "foolishly" they spent their time while on earth! There has to be better ways to spend your time then arguing until you are "blue-in-the-face" that your interpretation is the only correct interpretation of His Word. :tear: There cannot be agreement here because the things you speak of upon examination are contrary to grace and man centered >Originally Posted by righteousdude2 .....which team I'd be on, and how popular I was among my peers by how quickly I was picked, as well as how good I was at that particular game and sport in which teams were being chosen for. Some may ask, just what does this have to do with anything to do with the question, and I'll say, very little if we believe that Christ came to save any who (1) realize they have sinned, Christ came to save sinners....he was not looking around like a child looking for easter eggs....He was not looking for "enlightened sinners" who in and of themselves realize they may have sinned; 23Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. (2) Realize that Christ died for their sin, No such sinners understood the cross in and of themselves. (3) Realize that works cannot get you saved or into heaven, all natural men are trying to earn heaven by who they are and what they do (4) Realize that you need to accept the "gift" of salvation that God has given us no where is anyone looking for sinners who accept anything....much less a potential salvation. through His only-begotten Son, and "ask him to be our Savior" He is the Saviour of all men who believe.....we do not ask Him to be anything...He is the SAVIOUR of all men, especially those who believe. and come into our heart and life No....believers are given a new heart...He does not come in to our heart, and we do not give him our heart.....what would He want with a wicked sinful heart.... and live for Him and walk that narrow, rugged, and at times, difficult path to heaven's narrow door. If it serves to make the "chosen" crowd happy, then after I chose Him as Savior, He chose me, back. AMEN! If you can read this, maybe, just maybe, you are making the act of following Jesus a tad bit too difficult to obtain! The bible says it is impossible...not difficult....God makes it happen by supernatural activity...new birth.You are speaking of a human act...scripture speaks of God's activity I don't believe God meant for it to be so hard to come back to fellowship with Him. Since Adams fall there is no-fellowship- to come back to. At least, I don't believe coming to Jesus should be like some of denominational, secret formula type thing....< I do believe that I know what it means when we read that we are not to: Grieve the Holy Spirit(Eph 4:29–32) To grieve: ‘to afflict with deep sorrow.’ Eph 4:29-31 ‘Let no unwholesome word proceed out of your mouth, but only such a word that is good for edification according to the need at the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (now this is worthy of RED lettering) In its context the Holy Spirit can be grieved when we return to those things from which we should have been set free. (legalism, folks, legalism) All of these things such as bitterness, wrath and anger etc., can grieve the Holy Spirit because they deny what has happened to us in being born again. Eph 4:32 ‘Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.’ (come on Baptist Board members, this applies to all of us) This is how it is meant to work: Remember what God has (past tense) done for you. Taking into account all that has been freely forgiven you by God (no one on this board needs the approval or validation of another or a peer to know they are saved and set free of their sin), how can we not then find forgiveness for others? If we were conscious of our own sin and the awesome grace that has been extended to us, how can we remain bitter and angry with other people? The order under grace is that you have been forgiven, so forgive others(stop this nonsense of "my theology is the ONLY theology). The order under law is forgive others so that you can be forgiven. That’s why I said that it grieves the Holy Spirit when we hold onto bitterness and malice because it is a denial of that which God has already done for us, and the great grace we have already received. If you would like to see the complete text of this neat Bible study on grieving and quenching the Holy spirit, please check this out: http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/studies/online/grievingtheholyspirit.htm I think it is time to lay down our intellectual weapons and just begin accepting one another for what christ has done in their life, and to cease trying to make others over and into what we think God would want, or, desire them to be. No one on this board is qualified to be the "potter", so why not return to sharing the Gospel, and cease trying to make other over into YOUR image!!! ***Please note that my use of BOLD print is not an attempt to "yell" at anyone. It is simply my way of emphasizing, or highlighting the words and phrases, I feel pertinent to the post.