Number of people in Heaven?

We don't make converts. The Holy Spirit does. We can only point the way to the Truth of Christ. How a person responds then is something individual to that person.

However, I do think you are right in that there are a lot of those who will get to heaven 'by the skin of their teeth' and who will not hear "Well done, good and faithful servant."

On the other hand, I have no doubt that all babies and children who have not made it to adulthood here on earth will be there, so heaven may be a little fuller than you think!

 

Everyone that God has planned before the world was created to be in Heaven will be in Heaven.

 

He doesn't believe they have any.

 

There is an age of accountability. That age differs with the individual. Once that individual understands the consequences for sin, and realizes his need for a Savior, and rejects Him, that individual no matter what age young or old will not enter heaven.

The Bible teaches that we must choose whom we will serve, whether the God who created us, or the gods of this world. Sadly many choose the latter and will find themselves separated from God for eternity

 

AF Guy

I haven't found a verse in the bible that says human beings have "free-will" either. I see alot of God's will, and of human will being enslaved to sin and such. No free-will for people, though.

As far as the number of people in heaven, I had a Seminary prof pose a similar question to us. It gives us a great deal to think about.

If we believe that all infants/young children go to heaven if they die (most people do, I guess), and given the evidence that many if not the majority of children throughout history did indeed die young (and many, perhaps most, still do in 3rd world nations; and if we believe life begins at conception (most evangelicals do, I guess), and scientific evidence tells us that most (75% ?) fertilized eggs pass out of the uterus without being implanted...

Then, must we assume the overwhelming majority of people in heaven are those who never reached adulthood, nor even had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to them, since they died in infancy, early childhood, or were never born in the first place?

I doubt if that helps, but enjoy meditating on it for a while.

peace to you

 

Ya know, I read a verse that says God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth should not perish but have everlasting life. I also read where God was not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

How can one say God has chosen to save some and even if one is truly repentent, even if one calls on the name of the Lord, that one may not make it to heaven because God may not have foreordained it.

Christ's blood was shed for the sins of the whole world, not just an elect few.

 

standingfirminchrist

If you read a few verses prior to John 3:16, you will see that Jesus has already defined who will believe as those who are "born-again". He also says those same people are born as the Spirit wills. Not as they will, but as the Spirit wills. This is a theme John first mentions in 1:13 where he says those who are given the right to become children of God are born, not by the will of man, but (by the will) of God.

If you read a few verses after John 3:16, you will see that men preferred to live in darkness, instead of the light. They weren't crying out to God for salvation. They are "condemned already". Those who came to the Light (come to Jesus=Salvation) did so, so their deeds are manifested as being "wrought of God". That means God was the source of their deeds..i.e. coming to the light and producing fruit as a Christian.

Salvation is a work of God from start to finish.

peace to you

 

canadyjd,

Man has free will to serve sin or turn to Christ. Men chose not to walk in the light because their deeds were evil.

The Bible plainly tells us we have a choice to make. God or mammon.

God is not a puppetmaster pulling strings deciding who he wills not to believe in Him and who He wills to believe. What kind of love would that be? Certainly not a love for the whole world!

 

Yep, the "falling away" is evident "everywhere".

On Monday morning at work, you can't tell who went to Church over the weekend and who got drunk by listening to their conversation.

"FEW" Christians mention their faith outside their church circle, and "VERY FEW" have ever knocked on a door to invite someone to church.

Jesus, "light of the world", took our place and died, and we're suppose to "take his place" (light of the world) and finish preaching the gospel, but the "LABORERS" sure are "FEW".

"Appreciation" for what Jesus did falls in proportion to the falling away.

As "JUDGE", God only administer the law, as the law requires, his personal predilection isn't involved, he'll condemn people to hell even though it's "AGAINST" his personal wishes that "none should perish".

 

One of the most hilarious moments will be the look on Baptists' faces when we get there and find out...we are not alone.

 

Eat, drink, and be merry then? Why not? Everything is already decided, right?

 

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

HankD

 

I believe that man has as much free will as is possible in his fallen state.

 

I believe that man has as much free will as is possible in his fallen state. </font>[/QUOTE]You ruined my day. So's ya know. See, I made (what I thought was) a choice this morning that I would NOT get outWhataburgered today. Only to find out from you everything was planned before the beginning of the universe and we are all going through the motions. So I'm bummed.

But wait, maybe God planned before the cosmos that today that extra slice of cheese would mean that I WIN! Having nothing to do with it though sure takes the spirit out of it.

I am going to have good long talk with Paul about that Preaching the Gospel thang. Whatever could he have been thinking...

 

I am not saying that man does not make choices. I am saying that man makes choices within the environment of his fallen state.

I also think that the gospel of Christ Jesus should be preached to every person on the earth so that he/she will hopefully make the best choice they can make within the environment of his/her fallen state - which is to come to Jesus in faith and repentance. And the sooner the better.

I am afraid that my initial post in this thread has been misconstrued as to what I meant.

 

Maybe you're found something here (tongue-in-cheek).

Mar 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and [his] disciples rebuked those that brought [them].
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

 

James wrote "to the twelve tribes scattered among the nations" (which, by the way, indicates that none of the tribes was 'lost'). This means his letter was not exclusively to believers, to say the least! So, knowing that he is not writing to believers, let's look at a good part of chapter 4, because it strongly indicates that, fallen state or not, men certainly have a choice, a totally free will, about which path they will choose to follow in life:

What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? You want something, but don't get it it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. [Note: the person may CHOOSE to become an enemy of the world, which means he may not have been in childhood, at least. He also BECOMES an enemy of God, indicating a change in status from not being an enemy of God. This is something Paul also indicates in Romans 7:7-11. It is a strong indication that although children are born with sin natures they are not yet enemies of God and not yet spiritually dead.] Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? [alternate translations of this verse: 'that God jealously longs for the spirit that he made to live in us' or 'that the Spirit he caused to live in us longs jealously'] But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:

'God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble.'

Submit yourselves, then, to God. resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come hear to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter into mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yoursleves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

Remember that when God was speaking to Noah in Genesis 9:21, He says the hearts of all men always TEND or INCLINE toward evil from their YOUTH (not necessarily babyhood or childhood!) Tending toward something does not mean the heart is going to inevitably choose the wrong. It will often struggle, even in its unredeemed state, to choose the right, but for the wrong reasons (self-aggrandizement, public acclaim, etc.). Nevertheless the unredeemed heart is very aware of the difference between good and evil and often struggles to choose what is seen to be good. This is a clear indication that the proposals of Calvinism are wrong. If they were not wrong, then ONLY the redeemed would be working in hospitals, or volunteers in disasters, etc. Either that or it is wrong to be either....

Man has totally free will in his fallen state. Although he cannot achieve what is right and good himself, he can choose to want it. James tells the unredeemed above to purify their hearts! He tells them to humble themselves before God, to draw near to Him. Thus, these are things even an unredeemed person can do.

 

Whew!

LUNCH TIME!

Explain what you mean by environment of fallen state as it relates to decisions and somehow tie in what you really did mean with your original post. Your initial post pretty much said what it said. If God planned it in the way that you said, then..........why do we need to do........anything?

psssst, foreknowledge does not share the same definition as predetermination....just an fyi