NUTS FOR ARMINIANS TO CRACK

The discussion in 2 Peter 2 deals with FALSE TEACHERS. So are False Teachers free agents? Since I believe in Free Agency among men, I am compelled to say Yes those spoken of as False Teachers are Free agents, because all men have free agency to act out their beliefs.

The real question here is did God make them for the express purpose of destroying them? NO! But because they have been made False Teachers, through whatever means, they are destined to be destroyed.

 

4) Would not the doctrine of free agency make man the cause of his own salvation?

Only if you believe that man can save himself.

The whole of Scriptures say it is God who saves man, not man who saves man. Scriptures do not say that man has no choice in altering his own condition from one of unbelief to belief. Belief being the condition in man that God desires and which God determines is sufficient unto salvation. God declares that he saves those who have faith, but does not save those lacking faith. Furthermore God does not go around dropping little drops of faith on man. But he does plant the seeds of faith in man via hearing the word of God.

 

5) Is any one free that is a servant? Are not all men the servants of sin until they are made free by the Son? (John 8:34-36.)

Context sheds a great deal of light on the message given here. But as usual the one who asks this question did not include the context which begins in verse 31 and not 34, and continues through verse 59.

The answer to the question is this: MAN ACTS UPON WHAT MAN BELIEVES! If you do not believe in God, you are not going to act in a Godly manner. If you believe in the world system you will behave in accordance with the world, and are thus "a slave" to worldly ways. If you believe in God you will behave in accordance with your belief, and thus be a slave to God.

 

6) If God only wills to save those that are willing to be saved, is not God's will dependent upon man's will?

NO! God's will has already been imposed on man through his Son! It is now up to man to believe and be saved, or not believe and be eternally judged.

 

8)If God only wills to save those that are willing to be saved, is not God's will dependent upon man's will?

A question twice asked is not twice as important!

 

9)Does God work all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephe- 1:1 1), or does He work some things after the will of the sinner?

God has already set his will in play, and it is his will that none should perish. However, it is also his will that those who do not have faith must perish, hence the final judgement of Rev 20:14,15, the lake of fire.


12)If God works all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephe. 1: I 1), was it His will to save those that will not be saved?

Answered above.

 

Well, It is my belief that 16 supposedly tough nuts to crack are laid wide open, completely devoured.

If those were the toughest nuts you calvinists have you're in real trouble.

 

I don't know what you are even saying here Your two statements are unrelated. The first you make the condition to be the reason for salvation. Now, do you believe the condition is faith alone?

In the second you make the condition to be the presence of God, this is not different than what I believe, first regeneration (that is the presence of God) then the person has faith because of this presence of God.

Now, Dear Yelsew2, before I have a stroke from running in circles and trying to read your other quick draw posts, please, let's get past this first response. You have built two opposing theological systems here, one must stand and the other fall.

Let's discuss these two and not try to make the two stand together, they cannot.

Just separate them and let me know which one you believe, we can go from there.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]quote;

Yelsew2, Neither of the above posts have been answered.

All you did is alot of posting from each question listed. You must present the first answer in coherence before anyone can deal with the rest of your humanism.

In your first answer, you alluded to both sides of the question. Please, reconsider your position and discuss the side you are on.

Then, you or someone can deal with the poor paraphrase of the parable provided that 'claims' that many shall be called but few will respond.

When that is shown to be scriptural you guys may have some real meat in your hickory nut for yourself and others to devour.

The best I can remember, the parable where that is drawn from says many are or shall be called but few 'chosen'. I will look it up and post it in the morning if none of you present it as the Bible speaks it, or either present the one that reads that few will respond.

Otherwise, all you are doing is making posts of incoherence, almost like a see-saw, up and down up and down, up and down

bro. Dallas

 

AS ORIGINALLY STATED,

LET ME CORRECT A POORLY WORDED SENTENCE SO THAT YOU WILL NOT BE CONFUSED BY WHAT I SAID.

CORRECTED TO READ,

 

Then, you or someone can deal with the poor paraphrase of the parable provided that 'claims' that many shall be called but few will respond.</font>[/QUOTE]Not my post, not my job to respond, since you yourself quite adequately responded. But I would point out that the parable of the wedding feast deals with the one who attempted to attend but was inadequately attired. Indicating that only those who have clothed themselves properly, in faith, can attend the Bridegrooms wedding feast. That one who was not clothed in faith, was bound and cast out into utter darkness (perhaps an adjunct to the "lake of fire").

You will acknowledge that those who came had "dressed themselves" before arriving at the feast. You will also acknowledge that those who came included the bad and the good alike, vs 10. However they all had one thing in common, and that is they all had on proper wedding garments save for the one that was bound and cast out. My point is the King did not go out and personally dress the attendees in proper attire before they came, they dressed themselves. All the king did is prepare the feast, and give them the invitation to come. The words of Jesus are very interesting reading, and reveal much that the Paulinians (Calvinists) deliberatly choose to overlook or to simply to ignore.

 

Let's back off the rhetoric here folks ... talk about the issues. Treat others with respect.

 

Already alluded to the parable of the Wedding Feast which Yelsew mentioned.

Matthew 22:1-14

In the parable, what was the requirement for being invited? What was the requirement for being thrown out? What was the requirement for being chosen to stay?

"For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

...all the guests were rounded up hastily from “the highways” and therefore none could be expected to come with proper attire. That means the wedding garments were supplied by the king himself. So this man’s lack of a proper garment indicates he had purposely rejected the king’s own gracious provision. His affront to the king was actually a greater insult than those who refused to come at all, because he committed his impertinence in the very presence of the king. The imagery seems to represent those who identify with the kingdom externally, profess to be Christians, belong to the church in a visible sense—yet spurn the garment of righteousness Christ offers (cf. Is. 61:10) by seeking to establish a righteousness of their own (cf. Rom. 10:3; Phil. 3:8, 9). Ashamed to admit their own spiritual poverty, they refuse the better garment the King graciously offers—and thus they are guilty of a horrible sin against His goodness.
John F. MacArthur, Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible, (Dallas: Word Publishing) 1997.

 

all the guests were rounded up hastily from “the highways” and therefore none could be expected to come with proper attire. That means the wedding garments were supplied by the king himself. So this man’s lack of a proper garment indicates he had purposely rejected the king’s own gracious provision.

I believe this is wrong. The proper view of this can be found in the parable of the virgins. We need to be always prepared.

 

Yelsew,

In all respect, I do believe your theological position is closer to Pelagian than Arminian. A fundamental difference between the two is the understanding of original sin. Arminians and Calvinists hold that children are born in a fallen state because of Adams sin, while Pelagians believe that children are born innocent and become sinners only as they sin themselves.

Here is what you stated in the Born Sinful thread:

"Human children are born with a propensity to be receptive to sinning but are not sinners until they actually sin. And guess what the first sin that a child does is? Exactly the same sin that Adam did, Disobedience of Authority! It is then that they become sinners!

Human children are born with the ability to learn, the ability to believe or not believe, the ability and desire to survive, etc.

Human children are born with the attributes that God himself has such as grace, love, mercy, judgement just to name the "big 4". They must be taught to behave in accordance with those attributes however, because they a matter of the will, just like they are in God. God wills his grace, his love, his mercy, and love. He Turns them on and off at His will.

What God does not will is his omni-attributes of omniscience, omnipresence, eternal existance, etc. He exists in them!

NO, children are NOT born sinful, they become that way by sinning and not being corrected. Those who are corrected become "righteous" (a relative term). "Bring up your child in the way he should go, and he will not soon depart from it."

And then...

"I'm Not convinced that David was an authority on sin, he knew how to do it obviously, But it takes more than quoting him to convince me of his authority. He was a master at prose however, excelling at lyrics. So to base your doctrine on the Psalms is like putting your treasure in a leaky boat and setting sail on the high seas. "

 

what was required is the proper attire. the wedding garment.

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.


the fine linen of "righteousness"

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

the parable speaks of one not possessing the spirit of Christ within them.

This is a vessel of wrath prepared of God.
"Called of God, yet not chosen" to be a member of the bride. the sons of God. the body of Christ.

 

Well bbnewton,

My goodness what must I do to be saved?

 

Me2,
Hooray! we finally agree on something! The attendees at the wedding feast are those who come to the feast dressed for the occasion.

The Jews, who were the original invited guests, begged off with all their excuses, the Gentiles believed and clothed themselves in righteousness through faith. So they were prepared when the invitation for them came.

Thank You God!

 

Sorry Yelsew,

The King provided the clothes..
in fact he provides 100% of everything.

the righteousness which enclothes us is the resurrected Spirit of Jesus Christ. each "guest" chosen receives the selfsame spirit.

Man cannot create his own righteousness.
Man cannot bring his own (unrighteous)wedding garments to this wedding supper.

as you perceive in revelations. these invited are the overcomers. they have overcome the power of Satan, which is the power of sin. which is the power of Death. they have discarded their burial clothes and put on priestly robes. Robes of Kings and rulers.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

They have been resurrected in this life by God the fathers by his power of resurrection. they have been joined as "one" with their "husband". Our Lord Jesus Christ. they have received a new righteous spirit. the wedding garment.


I believe in the total depravity of man along with Gods complete sovereignty.

Me2

 

I believe the custom of the day was that the King provided the dress; I also believe this goes much deeper than to our eternal salvation.

Isaiah 4.1

Thanks for answering the question. At least we are certain the Bible doesn't say many are called but few respond.

Bro. Dallas