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NYC mayor suggests paying poor

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by rbell, Sep 19, 2006.

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  1. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Hmmm...

    He says we should pay poor folks cash for doing things like staying in school and seeing the doctor.

    SOURCE

    Great idea...let's do away with the silly idea of internal standards. We should only do what's right when we're going to be monetarily compensated.

    Mayor Bloomberg should really take something for his acute cranial rectitis.
     
    #1 rbell, Sep 19, 2006
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Stupid.:BangHead:
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Sep 19, 2006
  3. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I think the government should pay those who allow them to use their children for ungodly experiments. Its only fair. If your going to teach my children evolution and inject them with foreign agents, I want some greenbacks! After all, the love of money is the root of a healthy society.
     
    #3 James_Newman, Sep 19, 2006
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    OK

    Here is a dollar!

    ;)

     
    #4 El_Guero, Sep 19, 2006
  5. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    If the fed govt was to give every person $1000/month + cost of living increases and eliminate all other welfare and subsidies it would be cheaper in the long run.

    It would create a master list of American citizens - posted on the web - against which voting lists and whatever could be checked.
     
    #5 billwald, Sep 19, 2006
  6. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Where is the constitutional mandate to support all citizens? Are we really free when we're being supported?

    A country that must support basic necessities for its citizens is in trouble. A country whose majority chooses to be supported is in dire straits indeed.

    I dunno who said this, but when it comes to me and the government...

    "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees."

    (of course, spiritually speaking is a much different matter)
     
    #6 rbell, Sep 19, 2006
  7. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Social Security and Medicare are welfare. Student aid is welfare. Most everyone is already on welfare.
     
    #7 billwald, Sep 21, 2006
  8. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I hate SS...it's a big Ponzi scheme.

    I refused ALL government student aid. Scholarships and hard work for me.

    I'm self-insured--we'll have to see...by the time I'm a senior adult, medicare may be the only way to receive care. I hope not.

    But having said that, I don't think you can lump them all together equally.

    "Welfare" is truly something for nothing.
    "Social Security" is my money being paid back to me at a horrible rate of return. That's not something for nothing and thus not welfare in its strictest definition.

    Granted, some folks will receive more than their share in SS. But not me, or any other hard-working member of my generation.

    But you didn't answer what I asked earlier:

     
    #8 rbell, Sep 21, 2006
  9. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    Social security is reverse welfare. It's taxes the poor pay to the rich, in order to get some of it back later when they are old.
     
    #9 The Galatian, Sep 21, 2006
  10. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    No, Bloomberg, the millionaire mayor, is a pragmatist. This has apparently worked in other countries. The idea is that it is cheaper and more productive in the long run to have healthy and literate citizens.

    If it were to actually work, would it still be wrong? As much as some people disparage welfare, we don't have anywhere near the malnutrition we had before it was instituted.
     
    #10 Daisy, Sep 21, 2006
  11. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find Member
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    Ends justifying means? Now that is a slippery slope (visions of McLintock!)
     
    #11 Not_hard_to_find, Sep 21, 2006
  12. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    Pay $1 now or $5 down the road...or never pay nothing and allow NYC to become like Calcutta where the poorest of the poor fend for themselves, many tragically unsuccessfully, relying on charity.

    Social spending like this an investment that returns capital as well as alleviates misery and benefits all the inhabitants (some more than others), so yes, I think in this case the end does justify the means. Of course, I think the means is justified in that "promoting the general welfare" is an important function of government.
     
    #12 Daisy, Sep 21, 2006
  13. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find Member
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    And, if it doesn't work? Is that still "promoting the general welfare"? Where is the return on the investment then?

    I do believe "investment" social experiments have been tried before -- an example would be housing projects. Anyone wish to give examples of success? How do they differ from the others?

    I personally believe Habitate for Humanity has greater, longer lasting success for individuals and the major difference is personal commitment.
     
    #13 Not_hard_to_find, Sep 21, 2006
  14. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    vast, vast difference between providing sustenance to fend off malnutrition and rewarding folks monetarily for what any responsible person ought to do.

    Many of our general populace are becoming more and more helpless--showing a lack of personal initiative as they sit and wait for the government to take care of their every need.

    NHTF makes a good point about Habitat.

    Had this phrase been overused in the 1700's as it is today, I feel strongly we would not exist as a nation now. When the government routinely does for folks things that folks ought to do for themselves, we forfeit freedom and increase the size and power of those governing us. Dangerous ground.

    I don't want a calcutta scenario here. But there's middle ground between calcutta and socialism. We're drifting too close to the latter IMO.
     
    #14 rbell, Sep 21, 2006
  15. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    There's the rub.

    Student loans, mortgage interest deductions, Headstart.

    Yes, and the people are just working poor - not mentally unstable homeless.
     
    #15 Daisy, Sep 22, 2006
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I would like to see evidence that head start is effective. I cant find it.
     
    #16 Revmitchell, Sep 22, 2006
  17. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Today in the news we heard that our government--mostly the Census bunch--has lost over eleven hundred laptop computers, many with personal info on them.

    This is the same bunch that we're talking about paying poor folks to take the responsible actions that me and mine do "for free" (or even at cost to us!).

    Now what sense does it make to have an entity that can't even keep up with its own stuff be rewarding other folks for responsibility?

    Maybe our tax payments to the government should instead be rewards based on when they refrain from stupidity.

    Wow, what a refund I'd get.
     
    #17 rbell, Sep 22, 2006
  18. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    Where have you looked?
     
    #18 Daisy, Sep 22, 2006
  19. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit New Member

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    me! you could look at me if I could remember anything that far back....
     
    #19 UnchartedSpirit, Sep 22, 2006
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