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Obama appeals for tolerance on 9/11

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Jedi Knight, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. targus

    targus New Member

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    That does not seem to be tolerant of their religious beliefs.

    Why so intolerant?
     
  2. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Would you feel more at ease if people seriously threatened to burn the place down? Maybe peaceful protest just isn't your thang, oh courageous one.
    Zoning boards and private citizens are entitled to oppose any new construction for any number of reasons.
     
  3. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    1. Promoting intolerance to Islam

    2. Opposition to building places of worship for Islam

    I'm not suggesting the U.S. government or anyone else should restrict the opinions of others.

    I'm suggesting that Americans and Baptists should have the ability to discern when their own opinions are in opposition to their own spiritual and nationalistic principles.

    I encourage peaceful protest and have no beef in particular with opposition to the placement of the Ground Zero mosque.

    My issues are with the opinions of general intolerance and restriction of religious freedoms to muslims. You were saying that there is nothing wrong with these opinions because they are just peaceful protest and not violent protest. I do not understand why Americans and Baptists are not all like C4K who is standing up against these ideas that are in direct opposition to their core national and spiritual convictions.
     
  4. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Tolerance should extend at a basic level to:
    1. People being allowed live and worship in their chosen religion
    2. People being allowed build their places of worship

    Tolerance does not extend to breaking the law:
    1. Incorporating religious tenets into the law (biblical or sharia law)
    2. Breaking civil marriage laws (Christian or Islamic polygamy)
    3. Breaking municipal ordinances for noise regulation (church bells or Azan)

    With regard to Christian merchants playing Christmas carols, the law does not prohibit this. Institutions may have policies in place so as to not appear to favor a specific religion. But it is not a requirement of Christian religious practice to play Christian music wherever we want and is not protected under the 1st ammendment.
     
  5. Nonsequitur

    Nonsequitur New Member

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    He is NOT the 'leader' of all Christians.
    Or do YOU think he is speaking for God?
    Leader of all the above? Don't think so.
    But what does one expect from someone in ireland , trying to say what we should do in the U.S.?
    When you come and live here, then tell us how you really feel.
    [personal attack]
     
    #85 Nonsequitur, Sep 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2010
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    You are taking a chance of receiving bodily harm from "the Religion of Peace" by implying that the Azan is "noise".

    The problem has already manifested itself in Michigan.
    Muslims are requiring the sounding of the Azan (goes under different spellings - Athan, etc), do a Google.

    That will be their defense, that it is an integral part of muslim worship and therefore must be tolerated per "freedom of religion" and in particular from the mineret atop the mosque at Ground Zero once it is erected.

    Not many people are aware of imam Ruaf's plan to have the Azan sounded out five times a day from the mineret on the proposed mosque at Ground Zero.

    Here is a quote
    From the public Domain at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575449572447289834.html

    So, would you side with muslims if they move into your neighborhood and required an exemption status for the Azan?

    Also Sharia law requires the "jizya" (an infidel tax) for all who hear the Azan and do not comply.

    The "Azan" coming soon to your neighborhood.
    Get your prayer rug now before the rush.

    HankD
     
  7. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I found a very interesting article about the Azan/Athan/call to prayer controversy in Hamtramck, Michigan back in 2004.

    It seems they understood that the call to prayer is noisy and wanted to abide by local ordinances and even give council an opportunity to alter ordinances to limit what they could do with the call to prayer.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It's coming to America if we are asleep at the wheel. The Azan is being sounded in parts of Michigan.

    Forget this so-called tolerance, disallow the mosque at Ground Zero and ban the Azan. "Peacefully" if possible from the "Religion of Peace".

    I don't think the founding fathers formulated the First Amendment with Islam (the ancient enemy of Christianity) in mind.

    The Constitution also contains the clause to "insure domestic tranquility" as an obligation of the government for its citizenry.

    Everywhere "the Religion of Peace" intrudes upon a culture or people anything but tranquility or peace ensue but bloodshed almost inevitably follows.
    In many cases it is pre-emptive i.e. 9/11.

    Now they want a mosque and the Azan to be sounded in the rubble of the World Trade Center Towers.

    Nip it in the bud and disallow it for the sake of the "domestic tranquility".

    Otherwise it doesn't take the proverbial brain surgeon, rocket scientist or prophet to predict TROUBLE, BIG TIME.


    HankD
     
  9. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Roger William's quote from The Bloody Tenent, Of Persecution for Cause of Conscience includes anti-Christian consciences. His document was cited as a philosophical source for the development of the 1st amendment.

     
    #89 Gold Dragon, Sep 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2010
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Do you really believe this?

    IMO it was fakery, they not only expected a firestorm but planned for it to happen.


    HankD
     
  11. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do. Other mosques in other towns in the region had already initiated Azan without incident.
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what you are saying Gold Dragon but trouble is coming from radical islam and the government has the obligation to protect us from all enemies foreign or domestic no matter what mask they wear.

    HankD
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for proving my point.

    OK, then, offer them an invite to your neighborhood.

    HankD
     
  14. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. We should combat radical islamic terrorists with the full force of our international and domestic strength.

    But the founding fathers of the united states did intend for religious freedom of those who are enemies of Christianity. That does not permit them to commit crimes against Christianity.
     
  15. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    That's what the Obama admin has been doing. The United States must use the full force of our military, intelligence, and judicial resources to defeat terrorists. The underwear bomber probably isn't even going to have a trial. It looks like he will plead guilty and be punished for his crimes. The power of our government is too strong for terrorists.
     
  16. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    There were already many muslims in the neighborhood I grew up in. There were also many hindus, sikhs, buddhists, jews, catholics, orthodox, etc. My high school was a mini United Nations in both ethnicity and religion and I loved that about it. Sure there were little ethnic gangs that sometimes clashed but for the most part, people were very respectful of differences.

    I think living in a town where everyone was Christian would be just as foreign to me as living in a town where everyone was muslim.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    G. Dragon, are you Australian or American?

    If Australian, what are the laws there concerning "religious tolerance"?
    i.e. Is the Azan allowed and if so has it caused any trouble?
    How would you feel about having to hear it five times a day?
    Does Australia have a counterpart policy to our First Amendment?

    Thanks
    HankD
     
    #97 HankD, Sep 14, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  18. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    OK, this leads us to an issue that we've not dealt with in this thread, but is of crucial importance:

    When Obama (or anyone, for that matter) calls for "tolerance," exactly how do they define "tolerance?"

    If by "tolerance" we mean we allow folks to conduct their affairs without having to deal with the threat of abuse, violence, etc.--of course. And folks that are "intolerant" in that sense should pay the criminal penalties that are appropriate to the crimes.

    But I'm not sure that's what Obama means.

    I think he's embracing the "new" definition of tolerance (we see this definition most often used in debates over "gay" issues)--that definition being, "not only must you 'tolerate' my views in the strictly defined sense--but you must also celebrate my view as having equal standing and validity as yours."

    I'm sorry, but fundamentalist Islamic culture is inferior to our Judeo-Christian one. Under the new definitions of "tolerant," it fails..but under the old one, there is no inconsistency.

    So, when I hear "tolerance," I have to know which definition is being utilized. One of them, I'll agree with and abide by. The other--not so much.
     
  19. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I'm sorry--perhaps you can show us the numerous examples of "crazy Catholics" that are blowing themselves up in gatherings of innocents.

    Paul, these kind of statements you make cause other arguments you have to lose credibility.
     
  20. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I'm Canadian but both Canada and Australia have similar freedom of religion clauses as the 1st amendment.

    There is nothing in the federal laws of all three countries (CAN, US, AU) that would outlaw something like Azan, but city noise ordinances may restrict their practice.

    I personally would not like to hear Azan five times a day. I live right beside a massive hospital construction zone at the moment and have been disturbed by the noise several times. They have specific hours and that they can work and maximum decibel levels. I'm sure they have had their fair share of complaints, being near several high rise towers. Any mosque nearby wishing to broadcast Azan at obscene hours in the morning or night or at very loud levels would also receive lots of complaints. The same would probably be true of church bells that ring too loud at unreasonable hours.
     
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