Obama/Biden 2008?

If I am not mistaken, the biblical principle that is violated in abortion is, "thou shalt not kill". Isn't senseless war needless killing? How can you have one standard for abortion and another for unjustified war?

How can you imply the only biblical priciples that matter or being stepped on in America is abortion and gay marriage? There are plenty of biblical principles broken in America than just thou shalt not kill and man should not lie with man like he does with woman. Yet the Church seems to put on blinders and feel less adamant about other abominations, no, as long as the guy is pro life and against gay marriage then the Church should be 100% behind him because nothing else he is can be or do can be worse than these...

 

You just wont see the narrow mindedness of your view. Pro choice is not the same as pro abortion but oh well, you have your mind made up. I know how my heart is, I don't believe in abortion and would not have one myself. But I also don't believe I am so smart or arrogant that I have the answer for every home and situation in America. Lucky we have some with all the answers that have license to tell everyone else how to live and coexist in the land of the free (must be on the page of the constitution I am missing)...

I'm not trying the shoes on anyones feet but if you feel they fit then by all means shine um up and put them on. I can show you many post in the last three months that say a Christian can't be pro choice but find me one post where someone is pooling resources to feed one hungry child? This is a Christian board. Certainly we practice biblical principles and values... YES... Mt 25:34,35 ring a bell?

I agree with you 100% here except in the scenario where no one else comes forward to sufficiently address the need. This country is spending enough money per day rebuilding Iraq that no citizen in this country should have to go hungry. Is the Church outraged about that? Do we say "I can't see how a Christian don't consider this when they go to the polls"?

Tell me, is it more biblically correct that we have a properly functioning government or that we have compassion and love for our fellow man? So I agree, "Running benevolence through the government is poorest way to accomplish this goal" but it seems to be the only solution that has stepped up to the plate... My faith tells me to support it until something better comes along.

Show me one post where someone is outraged on behalf of the starving people and I will feel I have something to prove or justify. I think the absence of these post speaks loudly enough for itself...

This is exactly what I have been saying, the child in the womb seems to be the only biblical cause or infraction many Christians seem to see worth considering when choosing a candidate to support. You can believe anyone who makes less than $5 mil is poor but as long as you're pro life I give you the thumbs up... Rev Mit. 2:15

What a low blow to the poor that was...

God grieved at the holocaust in this country? Perhaps you can expound on this?

 

By the way, Senator Biden's net worth is less than $150,000. No one can pin an elitist charge on him. Unlike Senator McCain, he knows the number of houses he owns.

 

Murder is murder regarldess of whos home it is in. Narrow it is. Yes sir.

The lack of posts working to pool money for the poor is evidence of nothing.

The question here is "what is sufficient?"

How muhc better can the "sufficiency" be met with the costs of government interference take out of the way.

As this is being handled via the government, the poor are being fed, cities and schools being rebuilt iw ould think you would support this outreach.

The fallacy is that it would not get done without givernment intervention.

The difference between death and hunger is the latter has a greater wight to it. Add to that the horrible slaughter of such an innocent life.

"Seems" maybe you should check further an "seems".

The 40 million children that have been slaughtered in the name of convenience is a holocaust to be sure.

 

I dont have two standards. The war in Iraq being "unjustified" is simply your opinion and not biblical doctrine. My opinion is that the war is justified, and the fact that we have had no more atacks within our borders is proof of it.

BTW, my oldest son is an officer serving in Iraq as we speak, and I am proud of him.

AJ

 

So what about the many years before 9/11 when there were no attacks? Was that because of the war?


I'm proud of your son also, I don't blame him for being a good soldier... He didn't ask to go, he got orders.

 

No one going to bed hungry tonight, that is sufficient. Shouldn't that be the Christian definition of sufficient?

What about the number who die from lack of good health care, shouldn't we speak up for them also? Or do only the unborn make up the holocaust?

 

Actually no. People suffer from hunger for various reasons. Often it is self inflicted. I am all for helping those in need. But I have less concern for those who only hurt themsleves until they are willing to change their poor choices and self indulgence that lead to their situation.

Well lets make a change to fix it outside of universal health care that is impossible to implement. Lets put a stop to unfettered lawsiuts that drive up costs, as well as fraudulent claims. Let's actually fix the problem. In the end this doesnt have the weight abortion carries. While it is an injustice as a result of not addressing the actual problems no one slaughters anyone intentionally as they do the unlimited unborn children. Since you do not really have a concern for the unborn child so long as it is a"choice" your current points are only poor attempts to justify choice over the life of the child. I would think that supporting choice on this board would be against the rules of posting.

 

Good point regarding the law suites but we also don't want to give incompetent doctors a get out of jail free card. I disagree with your numbers, globally we loose more lives to poor health care and starvation than we do abortion.

This is what I said from the start, someone with a view who differs is considered non-Christian and has no place on a Christian board. What a narrow view. Ya take up one Christian cause to the point you forget about all the others.

 

This is why I specifically said Children. Children go hungry because the parents make poor choices not because they inflicted it upon themselves. Isn't this the same thing we say about abortion, the parents are making bad choices which harm the unborn child. Why the different standard and concern only for the unborn?

 

This holocaust is Americas sin not the world. Amerca cannto solve the problems of the world.

Supporting a choice is support of abortion even if in a limited sense. And it is ungodly. Yes the definition of life, sin, and supporting the ungodly is narrow.

Really!? Well please provide evidence of this unfounded accusation. The only time I see libs on the board posting anything in concern of the hungry is when they have a need to justify ther position on abortion.

 

1) The conflict in Iraq has nothing to do with the war with al Qaeda.

2) One of my great-nephews has just gone to Iraq to serve there as my other great-nephew did a few years ago. By the way, Joe Biden has a son about to serve a tour of duty in Iraq.

 

"Many people are very, very concerned with children in India, with the children of Africa where quite a few die of hunger, and so on. Many people are also concerned about all the violence in this great country of the United States. These concerns are very good. But often these same people are not concerned with the millions who are being killed by the deliberate decision of their own mothers. And this is what is the greatest destroyer of peace today - abortion, which brings people to such blindness."

Mother Teresa, quoted in Cal Thomas, "Meek Mother Teresa delivers a verbal knockout punch," Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph (February 9, 1994), p. B7

"The fact that restricting access to abortion has tragic side effects does not, in itself, show that the restrictions are unjustified, since murder is wrong regardless of the consequences of prohibiting it; and the appeal to the right to control one's body, which is generally construed as a property right, is at best a rather feeble argument for the permissibility of abortion. Mere ownership does not give me the right to kill innocent people whom I find on my property, and indeed I am apt to be held responsible if such people injure themselves while on my property. It is equally unclear that I have any moral right to expel an innocent person from my property when I know that doing so will result in his death."

Prochoice philosopher Mary Anne Warren, "On the Moral and Legal Status on Abortion," in The Problem of Abortion, Second edition, editor Joel Feinberg (Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, 1984), p. 103, quoted in Randy Alcorn, Pro Life Answers to Pro Choice Arguments, (Portland, OR: Multnomah Press, 1992), p. 86.



http://www.christiananswers.net/q-sum/abortionquotes.html

 

Yet you neglect a major Christian cause because you hate George W bush.

AJ

 

Yes it does. Bin Laden said that Iraq "is now the place for the greatest battle of Islam in this era…As for the battles that are going on in the far-flung regions of the Islamic world, such as Chechnya, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Bosnia, they are just the groundwork and the vanguard for the major battles which have begun in the heart of the Islamic world."

I guess Bin Laden heard it loud and clear when Bush said, "Bring it on".

 

As for Joe Biden, well he makes a good attack dog and is a strong unscripted speaker. That's what he brings to an Obama candidacy, IMO.

 

If a McCain/Huckabee duo is on the ballot, Obama's days are numbered in the political arena.....

 

I don't hate GW. I voted for him in the first election against Al gore. However, I will admit I made a mistake. He never delivered on his promises. Then of course there is his reaction to the 9/11 tragedy. As a Christian, I somehow felt obligated to turn the other cheek, forgive and show we are better because we don't act like thugs. Then, when we learned our attackers, Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were in Afghanistan, we use that opportunity to invade Iraq and oust Sadam. Now we are dealing with the downside of ousting a nations leader no matter how bad he sucked.

We now incent corporations for sending American jobs overseas and pay record breaking prices for a barrel of oil while we rebuild the oil producing country with American tax dollars. We now have a debt so large our great grand children have no hope to repay and we encourage people with absolutely no knowledge of the stock markets to put all their hopes in a 401K.

But I'm glad you feel he furthered your Christian cause. He did say he was pro life... I will give him that. :thumbs:

Atta Boy George... Take your bow... :thumbs:

 

He said that long after we invaded Iraq, so how can this have anything to do with why we're there?

 

That's strange, isn't that why we're in Iraq? Wasn't Sadam tried and found guilty of crimes against humanity? Wasn't that his crime? So I have this right, as a Christian, we should only worry about abortion in America? Do I have that right?

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you're standing. From where I stand pro choice is not the same as pro abortion. I likewise believe everyone should believe in Christ but I support our constitution which says a fella has a choice of which God he serves. It is that freedom of religion that allows us to freely worship without. But I'm sure you won't see it that way. Choice is the foundation of freedom.

I am not trying to justify any position on abortion, I am saying some have a narrow view of what's ungodly or a sin. I just don't see them being as adamant toward all people or acts that are ungodly or a sin.