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Obama Endorses Mosque Project Near Ground Zero Site

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Jedi Knight, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Not sure I understand the nature of CTB's protest.

    Many of us on here--myself included--have stated, over and over, that these folks havethe right to build where they are desiring to...but that it is insensitive, and in bad form to do so--especially to do so and have an opening on Sept. 11.

    And...we've the right to ree speech, and protest said project.

    Why is that so difficult for Crabby to understand?

    And is it more about making political points that being intellectually honest?
     
  2. targus

    targus New Member

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    Yes - it is.

    That plus Crabby considers himself to be the moral superior of just about everyone else on the board.
     
  3. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    If government building inspectors come to inspect a church, or a fire department responds to a call at a church, then which are the church and the government entities?-- separate or together?
     
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I will defend your right to speak. Will you defend mine? The Moslems?

    I simply stated that some who oppose the Mosque do not seem to want any rights given to anyone who does not agree with them.

    I never said you, nor anyone else did not have any freedom of speech. You must be feeling guilty to have read that into my comment. What I was doing was reminding everyone that everyone who is a citizen has these rights. Whether we agree with them or not is another matter.
     
  5. targus

    targus New Member

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    You say this - but then are critical and judgemental about those who exercise there free speech concerning this proposed mosque.

    And there it is.

    Can you go back through this thread and cite an example of anyone suggesting that rights should be denied of anyone who disagrees with the poster?

    As no one said anyone else should be denied their rights just be cause they disagree.

    Sounds as though you are the one who is feeling guilty here.

    Why do you want to deny others their rights? Because they disagree with you?

    Is that why you want to deny others the right of free speech?
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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  7. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    More intellectual dishonesty.

    What we've been saying is, though the muslims have the right to build there...it is bad form to do so.

    Are you being purposely obtuse? Or trying to impress us with your "tolerance?"

    What is so difficult to understand about the position enumerated here?
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Because of the probable long range emotional reactions of the opposing "multi-cultural" sides, the issue of the mosque probably comes under the constitutional responsibility of the government to insure domestic Tranquility which in special cases can supercede individual rights and perhaps even the rights of a religious special interest group.

    But who in authority will step to the plate? IMO, the present administration needs to rethink - What are the social consequences in terms of the domestic Tranquility in allowing this site to be built?

    HankD
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Wow - so does this mean the threat of mob violence should dictate limitations on personal liberty?
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    HankD
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Interesting concept for another thread.
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Scarlett nailed it. Ironic the liberals here failed to engage this post...
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It's relevant to the mosque situation.

    The very reason these words ("insure domestic tranquility") were included in the Preamble to the Constitution was to contain any domestic uprisings and/or rebellions. See "Shay's Rebellion".

    There is a definite possibility of physical conflict.

    But this is what radical islamic leadership considers a best case scenario, a conflict which we (Christians) start.


    HankD
     
  14. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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    http://www.resistnet.com/group/thecornerstoneofthenation/forum/topics/this-is-nyc-on-madison


    This is what adds to the problem. We(Christians) can't even do this where I live , stop and pray in groups.

    About 20 years ago I was with a group that was going to have a prayer in NYC, we were told we couldn't. We could get a permit at a park, maybe.

    When any group feels they aren't being treated equal, they get upset. When it is a group who has been here for years and the other hasn't adds to the problem.

    Here is the rest of the story.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/changingface.asp
     
    #94 Bob Alkire, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2010
  15. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    They're too busy showing off their "enlightened-ness..."
     
  16. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    More on the Imam who will oversee this thing-Ken-won't-call-a-Mosque-even-though-it-is:

    Here's his book title in English:

    "What's Right With Islam is What's Right With America"

    But here is the book title in Arabic:

    "A Call For The Spread of Islam From the World Trade Center Rubble"
    He has produced this book with the coopertion of some really shady organizations:

    SOURCE
    MORE

    Now...remind me again of how "unenlightened" I am...

    Of course this is a thumb in the eyes of America. Why else do these Islamists remain silent? Of course, when you've got the President running interference for you (at least today he is...we'll have to see how far he backpedals...), why should you speak up?​
     
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Surprisingly, I think Scarlett missed the mark this time. I usually agree with her about 95% of the time and have enormous respect for her and her opinions.

    Well I'm not a liberal, but I'll take a shot at engaging her opinions.

    Quite true.

    To be even more precise, the building they intend to remove is structurally unsound because a portion of the landing gear and fuselage of American 175 (the plane that many people saw hit the second tower on live television) damaged the building.

    However, the area where they want to build the proposed community center is part of a diverse living urban area with fast food, strip clubs, off-track gambling houses, and various businesses. It is not some designated memorial site like in downtown Oklahoma City.

    I don't think anyone who opposes your viewpoint assumes that you (or anyone else) is an idiot.

    I've been carefully listening to all of the pundits and posters on various threads and I'm haven't been convinced. Since no one has brought forth any convincing evidence that these specific Muslims were connected to the 9/11 attacks or even approved of the attacks, I fail to see why it is "insensitive." If some Baptist wingnut committed an atrocity, don't you think Baptists would want to establish a presence in the community to try to redeem the situation and be a witness to the world that we are not all nutcases? I suspect that's what the Muslims might be doing. For them to avoid the area (especially at this point) would likely be perceived as admitting guilt or a connection to the 9/11 attacks.

    I don't think there's any reason to "wring out hands" or to be "gutless." As someone who is holding a very unpopular position at this time, it takes a lot of nerve to take a stand for what I believe is right.

    And that's the essence of the issue. What is the right thing to do in this case? What would Jesus expect us to do?

    Your analogy only holds if those who want this mosque are united with Al-Qaeda, the people who attacked our nation.

    I don't understand the analogy, so I can't comment on it.

    We can't choose what is fundamentally right and wrong based on how evil people might want to react to it. Otherwise we are letting evil people set our agenda.

    By this statement, you are alleging that these specific Muslims in New York are part of the previously referenced "Muslims in the American and all around the world who supported what happened on 9-11."

    Do you have any evidence of their support?
     
  18. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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  19. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I really don't think that I've allowed anyone's potential reaction to shape my opinion. I am just voicing what will happen.

    I've made my decision that this is a fundamentally wrong move based on the insensitivity of the issue.


    Why is building the Muslim community center and mosque two and one half blocks from ground zero fundamentally right? I have yet to have anyone tell me this.

    I said, "For the Muslims in the America(s) and all around the world who supported what happened on 9-11, they will be having victory celebrations and you know it."

    I don't know who did and who didn't. I wasn't implying that the Cordoba group were terrorist supporters.

    I don't know what to say. I can't help you here if you can't see it. I do NOT care if these particular Muslims were connected with the 9-11 attacks or not. I don't think that they were. This isn't the issue.

    It's really been a shock to me reading this thread and I am a crusty old broad that pretty much ain't shockable.

    We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
     
    #99 Scarlett O., Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  20. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    You suspect that the Muslims in building this community center and mosque are wanting to redeem the tragedy of 9-11-01?

    Why did they wait nine years?

    How is this particular mosque going to change anything or heal anyone any differently than the OTHER mosque in the city? Why haven't they been using the OTHER mosques in New York City to bring about redemption and a witness?

    Why would finding another site be admission of anything?
     
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