Obama Shuffles, Does the Moonwalk on Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Politics' started by OldRegular, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. OldRegular

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    During the campaign last year Obama said that the war in Afghanistan was the war of necessity, the war that must be won. In March he repeated this mantra and appointed a new General, MacChrystal, to carry out his strategy. Now General MacChrystal needs an additional 40,000 troops to carry out the Obama strategy. So what is Obama doing? Shuffling his feet.

    It appears he is imitating Michael Jackson's moonwalk: Moving backward while appearing to walk forward. In doing so he assures humiliating defeat in Afghanistan, a resurgent Al-Queda, and more 9/11s.
     
    #1 OldRegular, Oct 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2009
  2. alatide

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    At least he hasn't pulled a large number of troops out to invade another country like your messiah Bush did.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Your ignorance of recent history is abysmal.
     
  4. alatide

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    Are you claiming Obama has done what GW did? You're the one who is clueless about history.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    No wonder your ignorance of history is abysmal. You either can't read or can't understand what you do read. Did I mention your "chosen one", the 0, in the response to your post?
     
  6. carpro

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    It takes a long time to plot a strategy for defeat that he can be sure to blame on someone else, but I'm sure he'll come up with one sooner or later.
     
  7. rbell

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    I'll say to Obama what I said to Bush: either let's get in and win this thing, or get out.

    They both have taken this stupid Lyndon Johnson wartime approach. We don't fight to win anymore.
     
  8. KenH

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    We have not succeeded in nation building in Afghanistan and I see no prospects that we will do any better than the British or the Soviets did in Afghanistan.

    We need to do what we can in the population centers this year and next and pull everyone out. Then we can monitor the situation and if al Qaeda tries to move back in from Pakistan we should blow up any new training camps it attempts to establish.

    More than enough American blood and treasure has been spent in this country. If we can't bring Afghanistan into the 21st century after 8 years, do we really want to spend the amount of American blood and treasure required over decades to come to keep trying to do something that neither the British nor the Soviets were able to do - tame Afghanistan into a governable nation-state?
     
  9. OldRegular

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    From my personal viewpoint neither Iraq or Afghanistan are worth one American soldier's life.

    However, that is not the whole story. If the Taliban takes over Afghanistan that means Al-Qaeda will regroup and once again become a viable threat to this country and, with the Taliban, Pakistan. If they get their hands on a nuclear weapon they will use it.

    One of the real problems with our policy in the Middle East is that we do not understand the Muslim mind. To them we are all infidels. Some Muslims just take a more pro-active role in eliminating the infidels than others.

    Sadly we just can't walk away!
     
  10. Winman

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    Yes, this is the real problem. We do not understand the Eastern mind whatsoever.

    Years ago when I was in insurance agent, a man came in for a policy. He was the Royal Crown Prince of Qatar, his father was the king. He owned several companies in America that made fruit juice. He was very wealthy and owned several Mercedes Benz's. He simply wanted liability insurance, he was not worried about damage to his vehicles. The problem was he only had an International Driver's Licence, which most insurance companies will not accept. I was an independent agent and had one company that would insure someone with an IDL, and would also insure these expensive cars which some will not insure. He ended up buying a nice policy from me, I made a very nice commission. :smilewinkgrin:

    Anyway, when we were filling out the application I asked his name. He gave me 14 names! I asked, "That is your name?" He said yes, in his country you have all the names of your fathers. He knew all his great grandfathers going back nearly 2000 years. And he knew more than just their names, he knew how many children they had, where they lived, and details of their life.

    So the Eastern mind is very different. They look at time very differently than we do. 100 years to them is like a week to us.

    And this is the problem. They are content to fight on and on, even if it takes hundreds of years. That is not a long time to them.

    I also saw an interview once of Ho Chi Minh, the leader of North Vietnam during the Vietnam war. He said he always knew they would win because the Americans did not understand the oriental mind. They would keep fighting if it took 25 years, 100 years, or 500 years. Time like this is not long to the oriental mind.

    And that was the reason I was against going into these countries in the first place. I am all for stopping terrorism. But you are not going to win against these countries, they will keep fighting until you tire of fighting and withdraw. This is why the British and Russians did not succeed there.

    This may sound brutal, but if I ran the world I would simply nuke them. Not that I like killing or war, I hate it. But if you impose terrible loss on them, then they would think twice about supporting terrorism. And we would not lose our own soldiers.

    I do think things are changing in the Middle East however, they seem to be getting away from the ancient mentality. The young people in the Middle East are very modern and have computers and Internet access. They are influenced by the West. The young people in Iran for instance are very pro-America. But the government is run by the old hard-liners with the ancient mentality. So, perhaps things can change in the future.

    Since we are there, we ought to go all out to drive out the Taliban and keep them out. If the country becomes strong and stable, they may become good allies.
     
    #10 Winman, Oct 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2009
  11. OldRegular

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    Good post Winman!
     
  12. KenH

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    The only option to stop trying to run Afghanistan is not just walking away. Our interest is in not allowing al Qaeda to re-establish traning camps; therefore, leave the Afghans to figure out things for themselves governing-wise and tell them that if we see one single al Qaeda tent pop up that we will destroy it with drones/bombs/missiles.

    We don't have the money, the manpower, nor the will to stay in Afghanistan forever. Those are the cold, hard facts.
     
    #12 KenH, Oct 8, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  13. BigBossman

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    Maybe Bill Clinton could join Obama. While Obama is doing the moonwalk, Clinton can play the saxophone with his shades on like he did back when he was running for president in 1992 on the Arsenio Hall Show. I can see the Afghans rolling their fists & shouting "Woo-Woo-Woo".:laugh:
     
  14. twpaige

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    Do al Qaeda tents come with a huge 'Q' on the top so we can identify them, Ken? I don't see how doing what you propose would even be feasable, let alone productive.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    I really share your concerns. However, I believe Clinton tried that strategy! Didn't work!
     
  16. KenH

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    The fact is that we can't in Afghanistan forever. Everyone knows this. It is time to deal with reality.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    I am afraid that the reality is as follows:

    1. If the Taliban takes over Afghanistan Pakistan is next!

    2. Pakistan has nuclear weapons!

    3. There would be nuclear war between India and the Taliban controlled Pakistan!

    4. Al-Qaeda would have access to nuclear weapons!

    5. The United States would be the logical target!

    6. Our porous southern border would provide access!

    7. We would have a nuclear weapon detonated in the US!

    8. That could lead to an all out nuclear retaliation!
     
  18. KenH

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    Here reality:

    1) The national debt increased $1.885 trillion during fiscal year 2009 from $10.024 trillion to $11.909 trillion. We can't afford to spend hundreds of more billions, if not trillions, on Afghanistan over decades.

    2) The British Empire and the Soviet Empire attempted to tame Afghanistan and failed. It is illogical think that we can.

    3) Unless we institute a draft we cannot sustain 100,000 troops in Afghanistan for the next 30 years or more.

    4) The American people have never gone along with having our troops in harm's way for decade after decade in a country. We have already been in Afghanistan for twice as long as we were in involved in World War II. We simply don't have the willpower to fight in a war overseas for year after year after year after year after year where American lives are being lost - just see the history of our involvement in South Vietnam if you doubt that.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    Ken

    Everything you say is valid. I have expressed my opinion elsewhere that in my opinion the Middle East is not worth one American Soldier's life. However, I just don't believe that we have defeated Al-Qaeda yet. If we wimp out in Afghanistan we will be seen as weak in the Muslim world and ripe for the taking.

    I believe the MacChrystal strategy is to pull back from the outposts to the population centers and try to stabilize them and build an Afghan army.
     
  20. KenH

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    For how long, OR? For how long? The clock is ticking on the willpower of the American people. And "until it's finished" is not an answer. It will never be finished.
     

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