Obama's Kingdom, EPA: You WILL buy 4 gallons of Ethanol-15

Discussion in 'Politics' started by LadyEagle, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. LadyEagle

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    Rest is here:


    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/epa-mandates-motorists-buy-least-4-gallons-gas-ethanol-15-pumps
     
  2. OldRegular

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    The dictatorship of the bureaucrat and Obamma!

    We haven't seen anything yet. If Obamma is elected again he will have no restraints and the Congress is too wimpish to take action. Even if they did we would likely have race war in some of the larger cities, NY, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, LA, and others.
     
  3. billwald

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    Congress has ordered the Air Force to buy veggie based jet fuel at $35/gal.
     
  4. TC

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  5. InTheLight

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    Simple. Use your freedom of choice and don't buy your gas for small engines at pumps that have E15 gas.
     
  6. OldRegular

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    Do you have a source?
     
  7. OldRegular

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    I would say if you can avoid buying ethanol laced gasoline do so.

    I have posted this before:

    Flexible Fuel 3.6-Liter, V6, 24-Valve, DOHC, flexible Engine; Front/Transverse Mounted with Horsepower of [email protected], Torque of [email protected], Alloy Block and Alloy Cylinder Heads; Runs On Ethanol/Gas Mixture With Up To 85 Percent Ethanol (Primary Fuel Economy With 100% Gasoline Is 17-City, 25-Highway and 20-Combined; Secondary Fuel Economy With 85% Ethanol Is 12-City, 18-Highway and 14-Combined) (Standard)
     
  8. billwald

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    Anyone out there put E15 gas in their motorcycle? I doubt it.

    Old flat track motorcycles burned pure alcohol because they had a very high compression ratio. I suspect that if a car engine was designed for alky it could run 15 to 1 and make up for the lower specific energy content of alky.
     
  9. LadyEagle

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    The way I read this article, gas station owners will be forced to buy special pumps that "blend" this into the gasoline we are using now.

    I don't know about you, but I don't want this garbage in my gas tank and what if you have an older vehicle? See, people thought the "cash for clunkers" was such a great idea, but it was just gearing up to have people buy "newer" cars to get ready for this plan. Perfectly good cars were crushed and disposed of and people were suckered in.

    You may think it is funny about the motorcycles and gas cans, but what if they end up making it a minimum requirement that you HAVE to purchase 4 gallons minimum? That won't be funny then. And this is just the beginning. What will happen by 4 more years if obama gets re-elected?
     
  10. InTheLight

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    As I read it there are gas pumps with E15 gas and E10 gas, just like there are gas pumps now with regular unleaded (87 octane), unleaded mid-premium (90 octane), and unleaded premium (93 octane). You select which blend you want and dispense it into your vehicle. If you usually select premium there is a chance there will be residual regular unleaded in the fill tube. It doesn't matter to most vehicles if there is a small amount of regular unleaded mixed with premium unleaded.

    Ethanol pumps have a couple of selections, E10 and E15. You make your selection just as you would between regular unleaded and unleaded premium. If you select E10 and only pump a small amount there is a danger that there is residual E15 in the dispenser tube leading to the gas dispenser handle. The suggestion is to pump at least 4 gallons of E10 to absorb any residual E15 that may be in the pump's fill tube. Seem like overkill to me.

    There is no-one forcing gas station owners to install ethanol pumps.
     
  11. targus

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    I don't think that is correct.

    I believe that the regulation is saying that if you buy regular unleaded or unleaded premium at a pump that also pumps E10 or E15 then you need to pump more than four gallons so that you dilute the residual ethanol gas that is still in the system.

    As pointed out that could be difficult for someone is filling a motorcycle or other small tank.
     
  12. InTheLight

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    Upon further review, you're probably correct, as I don't see how a little bit of E15 mixed in with E10 would have much of an effect.

    Are there gas pumps that are combination regular gas and ethanol pumps? I haven't seen any here in Minnesota and it's definitely corn country. The ethanol pumps are separate pumps, kind of like how the diesel pumps are separate.
     
  13. InTheLight

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    Found this:

    According to a recent letter by the EPA to the American Motorcyclist Association, motorists buying E10 fuel (a mixture that contains 10 percent ethanol) from a hose that also supplies E15 fuel (a mixture that contains 15 percent ethanol) must buy at least four gallons to protect customers following behind. Ethanol is hard on engines and less efficient than regular gasoline. E15 can even cause engine failure in smaller or older engines. So if you’re using a blender pump to buy E10 that sells both E15 and E10, the residual amount of E15 left in the hose from the previous customer could cause significant damage to those smaller and older engines—unless you purchase at least 4 gallons.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/19/the-epas-4-gallon-minimum-fuel-requirement/
     
  14. LadyEagle

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    So something else is being crammed down our throats by the Third Reich, er, I mean Obama Administration....
     
  15. targus

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    This strikes me as odd.

    Isn't the guy that is buying the four gallons of E10 just protecting himself?

    This business about protecting the next customer after the four gallone E10 purchaser makes no sense. If the next cutomer buys E15 - no problem. If the next customer buys four gallons of E10 - again no problem because he is protecting himself.

    The solution seems to be no E10 - especially since it doesn't save on oil since the lower mileage per gallon requires even more oil to make the additional E10 needed to take the car the same miles as regular gas.
     
  16. InTheLight

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    I think your confusion stems from the fact that the thread title is misleading and also the CNS article (no surprise) is inaccurate.

    The problem is when an E10 buyer follows an E15 buyer. There is more ethanol in E15 vs. E10, so the E10 buyer should buy 4 gallons to ensure that the ethanol content is kept as close to E10 as possible. Ethanol can attack rubber components like o-rings and gaskets. Also notice, apparently E10 won't damage small gas engine's rubber components, but E15 will (that would be news to me.) So the solution would seem to be no E15, but then how would we ever meet the EPA mandate that X% of gasoline sold be ethanol?
     
    #16 InTheLight, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2012
  17. targus

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    Recind the EPA mandate - since it makes no sense?
     
  18. OldRegular

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    Come on! Now is not the time to get logical. Ethanol makes no sense.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    How about recind the EPA?

    Ask yourself this question: Why would they do this when there is a shortage of corn due to the droughts?
     
    #19 LadyEagle, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2012
  20. billwald

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    To raise the price of corn and subsidize Big Agro. Almost all farm subsidies go to large automated field crops, no to farmers who grow veggies - row crops. That is why our veggies come from other countries. If the government was serious about improving our diet then veggie farmers would be subsidized, not corn farmers.
     

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