Obama's Social Security Whopper

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Revmitchell, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    In Daytona Beach, Obama said that "if my opponent had his way, the millions of Floridians who rely on it would've had their Social Security tied up in the stock market this week." He referred to "elderly women" at risk of poverty, and said families would be scrambling to support "grandmothers and grandfathers."

    That's not true. The plan proposed by President Bush and supported by McCain in 2005 would not have allowed anyone born before 1950 to invest any part of their Social Security taxes in private accounts. All current retirees would be covered by the same benefits they are now.

    Obama would have been correct to say that many workers under age 58 would have had some portion of their Social Security benefits affected by the current market turmoil – if they had chosen to participate. And market drops would be a worry for those who retire in future decades. But current retirees would not have been affected.

    More Here
     
  2. LeBuick

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    There's one thing Obama had right, if he can steal Florida there is almost no way mathematically for McCain to win the election.

    However what he's banking on is a big gamble. If too many low to middle class 401K's go down drastically before we vote his gamble will pay off with Winning the White House.
     
  3. Dragoon68

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    If people had put the same about of money into a reasonable cross section of the stock market - or even plain old certificates of deposits - for the last several decades as they and their employers have been forced to pay into social security tax they'd had a lot of money today and it would actually be theirs to do with whatever they want including pass on the wealth to their descendants. The return on investment for social security tax really stinks and the program has greatly expanded from its original form as another part of the Roosevelt's New Deal economics whereby the government is suppose to take care of you because you're too stupid or careless to do it yourself. Government programs are managed by government bureaucrats and politicians with their grand ideas in social re-engineering and vote buying schemes. What are asking for now? More of the same?
     
    #3 Dragoon68, Sep 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2008
  4. LeBuick

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    That's the point, most American's have no knowledge of things like the market. Sure there are plenty of people who will take their money and pretend to be on their side but in the end the average American is not on a level to invest. The market would consume them.

    If the market was that easy, we'd all be rich...
     
  5. Dragoon68

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    Maybe it's because they've been "educated" in government schools and are convinced government solutions are the only option they have. But then I also think personal greed plays into it a lot. People want stuff - lots of stuff - and they want it now. They'll mortgage their very life to get it. Then they'll complain later when they can't pay their bills. What should we do about that? How do you best teach people to live within their means? Government sure doesn't seem to be a very good example so how can they teach the citizens to balance their budget? Adversity is the best teacher!
     
  6. KenH

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    Most people are too busy working for a living and trying to make ends meet to spend hours and hours learning and practicing how to trade stocks and bonds. The idea of privatizing Social Security will not see the light of day politically for the forseeable future.
     
  7. LeBuick

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    My suggestion is to have all 401K's run by a fund manager who works strictly on commission. He don't get paid unless you get paid. The fund fails and they starve with you. The fund does extremely well and he will be compensated extremely well.

    This thing where they get paid while you loose all your money is a crime.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    Many don't have the aptitude or they would have gone into the business or invested on their own.
     
  9. KenH

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    No thanks. I prefer to pull the investments triggers myself. And God has blessed me with a nice 401(k) balance to show for it.
     
  10. billwald

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    No existing grandmothers born later than 1950? You gots to be kidding!!!!!

    Obama was correct!
     
  11. Dragoon68

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    Neither Obama nor McCain will be the savior of social security. It's just another tax - not a real savings account that you own - that may or may not provide some benefits. You get to pay into it but others get to spend from it. It's not part of your estate. You can't borrow against it. You'll probably get taxed on it when you take it out especially if you've actually saved some money on your own like you should have. It's another redistribution of wealth scheme that politicians and bureaucrats love to get their hands on. The best thing we can do is push Congress into letting us take a lump sum distribution of what we have in it and phase out the program as soon as possible. Of course it would be pennies on the dollar but it would be good to be free of it. Individuals - not the government - should provide for their own retirement.
     
  12. KenH

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    Ain't gonna happen for the foreseeable future.
     
  13. billwald

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    >Neither Obama nor McCain will be the savior of social security. It's just another tax

    Exactly correct. The BIG lie is that the rich people pay most of the taxes . . . not when SS is factored. Even the poor people with the Earned Tax Credit pay 8% of their life's energy as income tax - their company's half.
     
  14. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I doesn't take knowledge of any of that to have a 401k. And a trained monkey would outperform social security.

    I have never traded a stock in my life, but my 401k which gets 4% of my income will eclipse my social security which takes 13%.

    Privatization is the only option that offers a Social Security program for the future.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    A blindfolded toddler throwing darts at the WSJ stock page would outperform social security. The only way to not out perform social security is to put your money in a can and throw it in the river.
     
  16. Dragoon68

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    The really big lie is that "rich" people don't pay taxes! The real truth is that neither the "rich" nor the "poor" pay most of the taxes. The "average" American pays the most taxes - always has and always will. This includes the combination of direct taxes - sales, income, property, fees, etc. - and all the indirect taxes passed on by businessess added to the cost of goods and services. People just can't seem to understand this. They just keep looking for some way to fund all the things they want the government to provide them for free.

    As for social security tax, the return on investment (confiscated wages) is much greater for "poor" people than the average of the "rich" for certain. For most people it's a very poor return on investment even compared to a very conservative certificate of deposit approach to savings.

    But for many people educated by government schools it seems like a rally good deal! They like the idea of having becoming wards of the state in their old age.
     
  17. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    No grandmothers born later than 1950 collecting Social Security!
     
  18. KenH

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    The closer I get to retirement the better it sounds to me. :laugh:
     

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