Obedience

yes.

 

Salvation is dependent on the grace of God alone, unless one has to help Jesus finish their salvation for them, which would mean salvation isn't by Christ alone.

 

So we have to obey no one in order to be saved? Cool!

 

Salvation is an unconditional free gift of God, and obedience is therefore not a condition FOR salvation. The Spirit is given to those who obey, it is true, but here obedience is conditional upon first being saved and is a proof of salvation having taken place. Knowing Jesus Christ as Lord, I am to trust and obey.

 

So if I get saved, but don't obey, I was never saved?

Gee, God is really wishy-washy, isn't He?

... see it yet?

 

...my point exactly...

 

Fascinating. Turning a "grace" salvation into a "works based" salvation.

I take it, tragic_pizza that you do not believe in "eternal security", is this correct?

 

I would have to say you need to check the fruit in a person who says they are saved.....

Mt. 12:33 -
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Ga. 5:22 -
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If there is no change after one says they are saved, then what? Then once one is saved wouldn't being obediant inportant?

 

Thanks, Phillip, for putting words in my mouth. We are saved by grace, not by works. You know I was going to say that, and you are simply baiting me.

In order to grow into our salvation, grwoing into Christ, very Biblical concepts, our obedience to Christ is mandatory. No matter how deep our intellectual agreement to the doctrines involved in getting dunked or joining a church may be, without obedience we will be lost.

So if that does not equal "eternal security," then no, I don't beleive in "eternal security." If, on the other hand, "eternal security" refers to the inability of Satan or the things of the world to snatch us from the hand of the Almighty, then yes I do. I guess you'll have to make a value judgement based upon that, and condemn me appropriately.

 

Hi ONENESS, ....glad to see your back!

MEE

 

I hope you don't mind if I stir the pot a little.

Paul, in 1 Cor. 6:12 says "Everthing is permissible". Everything even includes disobedience. We have a marvelous freedom to do anything our little hearts could desire to do and our God is so great and so forgiving because of the sacrifice of His Son that he won't take away our salvation. Salvation is free. Totally free, "lest any man should boast"(Eph 2:9) that he is more obedient than another.

Works are works are works. It doesn't matter what face you put on them including the face of obedience. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith being the action by with we place our trust in Christ who paid for our sins.

That said, Paul goes on to say in 1 Cor, that just because we can do the desires of our heart, it is not always good for us, or for the furthering of the news of Christ who is the cause of our salvation. People aren't totally dumb. We know what is good for us. Even more so after we accept Christ and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit who helps to guide and comfort us. If it was good for us to accept Christ then it is good for us to do as he commands. But doing so has nothing to do with the actual act of our salvation. It may portray that we have been saved, but it doesn't save us. (back to that "so no man may boast" thing)

 

I don't know, can you repent more than I can?

Simply put, repentance is a work of the heart. Obedience is a work of the hand. As such, you can't compare the two.

As a side note, since I believe that belief must come before repentance, do you know how many times that words repent, repented, repentance, occur as compared to the words beleif, believe, believed? There are sixty two references to repentance in the NT, there are at least 3 times that many references to belief. It speaks for itself that God places more emphasis on belief than repentance, for without belief what is there to repent of?

The answer to your question is that repentance comes with belief, hand in hand, and that unto salvation.

Let me say again though that repentance, is not a physical thing that can be pointed to and it said that I repented better than you, or longer than you and therefore God likes me better and saves me more. It is not a work such as obedience that has a physical result that can be seen by man.