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Obedience

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ONENESS, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    No I do not. I do not deny the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I just simply do not believe the bible teaches they are seperated.
     
  2. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that he is a lost sinner the day he was born, condemned to Hell, in need of a Saviour. He was born with a sin nature. You don't have to teach him to lie and sin. You have to teach him to tell the truth and do right. He does things contrary to God's laws naturally because he has inherited the sin nature of Adam. In no way is he innocent and pure. He is a liar, and he was born that way.

    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]DHK, this is a low blow! I didn't think that even you could stoop so low and be so cruel. What kind of a man are you anyway?

    This baby is approximately 4 months old and you know if it was to die today that it would inherit the kingdom of heaven. Why do you want to torment this young father that way?

    I know Brian knows better, but your terminolgy/opinion is very hurtful!

    There are probably a lot, on this board, that agree, but are afraid to express their feelings, since you are a moderator!

    MEE [​IMG]
    [/QUOTE]

    MEE, thank you so much. But I was kind of curious to know what wicked lies your kids told as soon as they came out of the womb? LOL, what a misconception.

    [ March 01, 2005, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  3. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    What was the question your pastor could not answer?
     
  4. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Brian, I have always considered you a very nice person. Thanks for your politeness in every conversation we have had. I just hope my responses have always been the same toward you.

    Excellent Point, works should not be done to show someone how good we are or how good we can be. Works are done b/c we love God and want to please him.

    You are also right, we cannot prove anything to God. But our works are supposed to be a witness to those who are around us. Not that we have anything to prove to the world, but we do have an obligation to embrace the world, to stand out, to be light , and to be salt.. Our relationship with God should be evident by our works. And the world will see our works long before they see our heart. God looks on the inside, man looks on the outside.

    I’m not real sure how to answer that. I will say that we must abide in Christ for him to abide in us. He tells us in John 15 that if we do not abide in him he will not abide in us. So what does it take for us to abide in him? Faith. God requires faith. For without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6). Faith will motivate us to abide.

    Now that we know that it requires faith to abide, what does it really mean to abide? I think Paul summed it up the best when he said “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith (2 Tim 4:7).

    We are in a race, and the bible tells us in Hebs 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

    I don’t know what percentage of obedience is enough. But I do no what percentage is not enough, and that’s 0%.

    It took a little while but there it is. I was not avoiding just procrastinating

    Lord bless
    Brian
     
  5. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    I want my picture under my name like everyone else...how can i get it there?
     
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Sent you a pm.
     
  7. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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  8. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Diane,

    We should correct your post to reflect what should be done to get his picture into the scheme of things.

    Admit the Trinity...

    It is easy ... AND it is Biblical.

    Tradition and ease of fit are not the qualifiers though. Biblical is. Christ is the image of, but He is not the Father. Col 1: 15-23 ...
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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  10. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    ONENESS,

    We can not read the Bible and then define the words in that Bible any way we want to.

    The Bible says the gospel is the death burial and ressurection of Christ.

    You say "there is more to it than that" Sorry, you are wrong. Paul even declared that he was sent to preach the gospel and NOT to baptize, this proves that baptism is NOT part of the gospel.

    You still have not addressed the passage in 1 John where we are told exactly what we were supposed to "obey." You, however, say we must be obedient to the entire Bible in order to be saved, when the Bible tells us that we were not capable of that type of obedience and that is why Christ died for us.

    The Bible says there is none righteous and yet you claim that your son is.

    THe Bible says we aren't saved by works so you redefine the works you say we must do to be saved and call them "Requirements" instead. There is no Scripture that calls them "Requirements."

    The Bible says you must "repent" and I have shown how that means to change our mind, but you seem to keep thinking that there is some "work" involved in that. That is because you have been taught that repentance IS a work. That is NOT what the word means!

    I showed you already how that word is defined as changing one's mind. THe UPCI, however says on their website that:

    You are stating your opinions based upon THEIR definition, not the Bible's! Repentance is first of all changing your mind! When you do that you receive the Spirit (Eph 1:13) and the Spirit causes you to turn away from sin!

    Use your strongs and look up the word repent. What does it say?

    We will really get no where if you want to manipulate the Words of God to suit your doctrine. Until we can agree that the words have the same definition, there is no use in arguing.

    Are you going to converse based upon the meaning of the Words as they are used in the Bible or as they are used by the UPCI or whatever church you are associated with?

    ~Lorelei
     
  11. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Posted by DHK
    Maybe I'm in a cult. But the Cult that I am in has truth. The same truth that is taught in your Holy Bible. I'm proud to be in a Cult that Jesus started.

    Mark 16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe, In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues...

    Have you ever spoke in tongues DHK? Have you ever prayed in the Holy Ghost? Is your movement casting out devils? Are any of the other signs following the baptist movement? If you are not speaking in tongues than your not a true believer according to JESUS.

    I agree 100% thta the trinity teaches that there are three persons and yet one God. BUT thats not what the Bible says.

    You use Isa 43:11 to support the Trinity? The Trinity teaches that the First person in the Trinity is seperate from the second person in the Trinity.

    ...and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR


    "Beside" in the Hebrew means 1) apart from, except, without, besides.

    You can not seperate ONE GOD. THAT IS FALSE DOCTRINE.

    Study the the Jews Doctrine. The fundimental basis of what they believe is ONE GOD

    Jesus was asked a question by the scribes. They said, which is the first of all commandments? Jesus answered him and said " The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord". (Mark 12:29)

    This is what they base they're whole existance on concerning God.

    That is so far from the truth. They did not pick up stones to kill him b/c he was claiming to be one with God, but for claiming to be "GOD HIMSELF". Who is God himself? Their Father.

    [quote"Because thou, being a man makest thyself God."[/quote]

    They almost got it right. He was not man making himself God, He was a God who had made himself a man.

    They were so close to the truth it's unbelievable. After Jesus told them what the first of all commandments was they told him "Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:(Mark 12:32-33). And after that statement from the scribe Jesus said "Thou are not far from the Kingdom of God".

    You have got to know who Jesus is before you can inherit the Kingdom of God.

    That's right. And the Holy Ghost is Jesus in the Spirit form.

    Jeus said in John 14:16 if you love him to keep his commandments and he would pray the Father to send you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever. Who is the other comforter? The Holy Ghost (John 14:26).

    If you stop at John 14:16 you might would be able to think there is another person other than God up there, But Jesus gives us the explination if we keep reading.

    John 14:18 Jesus said I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS, I WILL COME TO YOU.

    There it is right there, he's not comeing back as the man Christ Jesus but as a the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost is none other than God in Spiritual essance.

    The Greek word for "comfortless" is "orphanos". And that is where we derive the word orphan from. Jesus is not going to leave us fatherless. Jesus is our Father too.

    Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

    God can't make that any plainer. Jesus is our Father, Jesus is the Son, and Jesus is the Holy Ghost. Three manifestations of the One True God, Not three seperate persons.

    1 Timothy 3:16 makes it very clear that God (The Father) was manifest in the Flesh.

    We are not required to believe a doctrine which is not in the bible. The Doctrine of the Trinity is a Doctrine derived by the Catholics in 325 ad. You condemn the catholics so hard for their beliefs but choose to embrace a false doctrine which they established.

    That verse is not even in the original text. But just to prove a point. Romans 9:11 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.

    Is Paul and his conscience seperate persons? NO.

    Neither are The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are seperate persons.

    Well, I'll finish responding later, I get to go to church now.

    God bless
     
  12. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    "On the other hand if you call yourself a Christian, yes, you have to believe in the trinity."

    Yes, by definition.


    "If you say you believe the Bible, yes, you must believe in the trinity."

    Doesn't logically follow. "Trinity" is a logical construct.
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The "yes" was in answer to the question, and is not necessary to the sentence grammatically. A few examples will clear that up for you.

    If you call yourself a Christian then it is logical to say that you believe in the Bible for the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief.

    If you say that you believe in the Bible, then you must believe in the deity of Christ,

    If you say that you believe in the Bible, then you must believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ.

    If you say that you believe in the Bible, then you must believe that the Bible is God's Word.

    If you say that you believe in the Bible then you must believe in the trinity.

    These are some of the foundational truths that the Bible teaches. If you say that you believe in the Bible, you will believe in these truths that the Bible teaches. If you don't believe in these truths, it is quite evident that you don't believe in the Bible.
    DHK
     
  14. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Nope, I'm going to mock your silly view of what you think scripture is referring to.

    You are not a messenger, you are a false prophet. God is One, not three.

    Take what up with God, that you are takeing this verse way out of context?

    What lies are spoken at Birth from a child? You're missing the whole concept of what David is saying.

    Dismiss it? I included it on my original post. This verse in no wise indicates we are born sinners. David said he was conceived in sin, but mentions nothing about being born with sin.

    Mary was a sinner, My Son will be a sinner.

    Ok define to me what a sinner is.

    Well then you are the one that makes Christ Contradict himself. Baptism is a part of salvation. MARK 16:16 HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED, BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED

    It does represent baptism and you can't prove otherwise.

    Exactly, that's exactly what I mean.

    He did say baptism, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, John 3:3, Acts

    Thats debatalbe, but I would win that one too. Because Jesus said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damened"

    I would also win b/c Paul was told to "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:15)

    I would win b/c Johns desciples were told to be rebaptized in the Name of Jesus. (Acts 19:1-5)

    I would win b/c Jesus said that we have to be born of the water and the spirit. (John 3:5)

    I would win b/c Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in the Name of the Lord.

    I would win b/c the bible says, The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    Check out what the bible says about baptism. And obey what it says about baptism.

    Baptism and faith go hand in hand. Neither one is a work. Baptism is part of the new birth, it is where our sins are remitted.

    and baptism is part of salvation. Mark 16:16

    Not just baptism. Baptism without faith is just getting wet.

    Christ does save, but if you don't obey what he says he can't save you.

    God Bless
     
  15. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Lorelie, Its really late and I've got to get in bed, so i will post some replys tommorrow.

    Hey listen you were on my heart the other day and I started praying for you.

    I was not praying for God to make you believe what I believe so dont think of it like that.

    I was just praying for you in General to help you and your family in everyday life. Just asking him to give you strength and to bless your heart.

    God bless, talk to you tommorrow.
     
  16. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

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    Brian (oneness) writes:
    ""You are also right, we cannot prove anything to God. But our works are supposed to be a witness to those who are around us. Not that we have anything to prove to the world, but we do have an obligation to embrace the world, to stand out, to be light , and to be salt.. Our relationship with God should be evident by our works. And the world will see our works long before they see our heart. God looks on the inside, man looks on the outside.""

    Hey Hey, we do agree on something. I could not have stated this better myself. Also, thank you for the kind words. You have always posted to me with charity. You and DHK get going at eachother a little rough but to me you have been very kind. "Works" have always been to show God's love and greatness to others. In seeing our works they will give praise to God and give Him their hearts. That is the hope anyway. Brian, the point I want to make is there will be those moments in life when the world beats us up some and our works fade, change, even lay dorment(sp?) for a season, but the heart that God sees is still unchanged. God may get our attention in some way because of what we are doing, but He still sees that same heart as when we were saved. God saw David's heart through murder and adultery, how much easier to see our hearts in a season of furstration, doubt, or pain, when our "lights" dim some. Praise God that He does not throw us to the wolves at those times but He will do things to draw us back to Himself. He knows exactly what to do and what we will do. The works change but the heart remains and that is a huge reason I believe in OSAS. Also, since even you can't say how much obedience is enough to keep us saved I will tell you. 100% is the only way to get saved and stay saved. Now God knowing that we were uncapable of that obedience sent His Son to be the obedience for us. I bet you knew where I was going with that. Works and obedience to God are great but not in the equation of saved or keeping salvation. That said, Scripture which you think may say otherwise must be read in a context of that basic truth. Give me a verse you think supports works and obedience being needed to maintain salvation and I will show you what I mean. Take care, Have a great day!

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Oneness,
    Please tell me your view on the virgin birth of Christ. Why was it necessary for Christ to be born of a virgin?
    DHK
     
  18. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Well I'm going to through back in here.....

    Since we are on to discussing the Trinity here, Oneness, how do you explain Matt 3:16-17?

    This is one of the clearest examples of the Trinity there is. So, Jesus was the one being baptized, The Holy Spirit decended, and then there was the Voice from heaven. The Voice declares that Jesus is His Son.

    Was Jesus talking to himself? Or did He have an out of the body experience where somehow he slipped out of his body and went up a ways so He could then decend back upon himself as a dove?

    Lets go on to chapter 4. Who led Jesus out into the desert? Did he lead himself?
     
  19. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Oneness,

    Manageriekeeper had a goood question. It was:Since we are on to discussing the Trinity here, Oneness, how do you explain Matt 3:16-17?

    This is one of the clearest examples of the Trinity there is. So, Jesus was the one being baptized, The Holy Spirit decended, and then there was the Voice from heaven. The Voice declares that Jesus is His Son.

    Was Jesus talking to himself? Or did He have an out of the body experience where somehow he slipped out of his body and went up a ways so He could then decend back upon himself as a dove?

    Lets go on to chapter 4. Who led Jesus out into the desert? Did he lead himself?


    I saw that you had not anwered yet and I was wondering why??

    Peace

    Tam
     
  20. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    Tam, ONENESS/Brian is no longer with the BB.

    MEE [​IMG]
     
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