Obey the entire Bible or pick and choose

this poll is very disgraceful and is worded in a liberal media fashion. this poll gives questions like when did you stop beating your wife, leaving no option to respond with correct explaining, liberals can try to explain away the depravity of homosexuality but there it is right smack in Gods word for everyone to read and know that it truly is an abomination. for the children's sake and people who need to hear the truth i call on all liberal teachers and preachers to stop and resign their office.

 

It is interesting how many of these attempts at answer do not address the NT Scriptures that clearly speak to this issue. The only who even attempted quoted a verse about Jesus fulfilling the Law which I did not even refer to as support (because I think it doesn't deal with this issue). It is amazing that with all the enlightenment here, no one seems able to deal with basic Scripture and basic distinctions.

 

Just by reading todays liberal pro homo posts we can all get a thumbnail sketch of the danger that homosexuals present to mankind today. They refuse to accept that their lifestyle is unnatural and sinful, they even refuse to believe that it is a choice that they make for themselves. Their goal is not acceptance but rather the indoctrination of the next generation, they must do this because you know adam and steve cannot reproduce, no matter how hard they try. I suppose if God really did approve of homosexuals he would have loaded some on the ark so they could repopulate the earth. The ark was big but how big would it have to be to hold all those guys, two by two would not work. Come quickly Lord Jesus is the best responce to this foolishness.

Murph

 

A good course in hermeneutics would've rendered this poll obsolete.

 

David, this should answer all your questions.

Wisdom is power!
From my sister Tracy

***************************CEREMONIAL LAW****************************

CEREMONIAL law consists of the Old Testament sacrifices, clothing/dietary
requirements, etc. Webster's 1828 defines ceremonial as--

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or EXTERNAL rite; RITUAL; according to the forms
of established rites....It is particularly applied to the forms and rites
of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, AS DISTINGUISHED
FROM THE MORAL AND JUDICIAL LAW.

CEREMONIAL, n.
1. OUTWARD form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including
all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by
law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social
intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

CEREMONIALLY, adv. According to rites and ceremonies; as a person
ceremonially unclean; an act ceremonially unlawful.

CEREMONIOUS, a.
1. Consisting of outward forms and rites; as the ceremonious part of
worship. [In this sense, ceremonial is now used.]
2. Full of ceremony or solemn forms.

CEREMONY, n.
1. Outward rite; EXTERNAL FORM IN RELIGION.

A ceremony is outward, symbolic, a figure, a type. The Old Testament is
full of ceremonies (termed "figures" in the book of Hebrews or "works of
the law" in Galatians). The outward rituals (like washings and
sacrifices) were imposed on the people until the time of reformation (ref.
Hebrews 9). The reformation is KING JESUS! Old testament sacrifices only
purified men to the sanctifying of the flesh and had to be repeated over
and over again. BUT the blood of Jesus sanctified your spirit, changed
your mind, gave you new sight, King Jesus came down to GET IN YOUR SOUL,
IN YOUR MIND. This is the mystery of God which was kept secret from the
foundation of the world. Christ IN YOU the hope of glory.

We don't need nothing external, King Jesus wrapped it all up. No more
ceremonial law. The time of reformation has come and CHRIST HIMSELF is
the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVETH (Rom
10:4). I ain't got to kill no birds, goats, sheep, bullocks, lambs,
nothing. The blood of Jesus ushered in the New Testament and we don't need
no more ceremony, hallelujah! In fact, trying to keep the ceremony is an
offense to God (read books like Galatians for understanding).

The ceremonial laws were instituted to give us spiritual types and
pictures. The New Testament book of Hebrews will bust this idea WIDE OPEN
for you. When you understand this, you will read the word with different
eyes. The Bible is not just a collection of accounts. There are
spiritual realities behind the accounts. Our awesome Lord uses the
physical to demonstrate spiritual realities. The physical helps our
feeble brains understand the things we cannot see. Here are a FEW
examples--

**The OT blood sacrifices of animals for sins PICTURES the NT sacrifice of
Jesus and His blood cleansing sin.
**The physical OT temple PICTURES the NT teaching that WE are the temple
of the Holy Ghost.
**The city of Jeruselem is on an hill, true Christians are an city set
upon an hill Moses lifted up a brass serpent on a pole (those that looked
at it were saved--those who didn't, perished), Jesus on the cross (those
that look will live, all else will perish)--see John 3:14
**Israel in bondage in Egypt, we are in bondage to the world (spiritual
Egypt)
**OT physical kingdom of Israel, in the New Testament kingdom of God which
is a spiritual kingdom that cometh not with observation, lo the kingdom of
God is within you.
**OT carnal priesthood, the Levites. NT a spiritual priesthood, the
believer.
**OT the holy city was a physical place, Jerusalem. We are looking for
the new Jerusalem, the holy city, COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
**OT veil of the temple represented the the flesh of Jesus. (Heb 10:19-20)
**Israel made carnal warfare, we make spiritual war (II Cor 10:4)
**Law written on stone, NT law written on heart by the Spirit of the
living God
**Physical Canaan the promised land, NT our promised land is heaven
**Carnal priests to mediate for the people, Jesus Christ the Great High
Priest

I could go on and on with this list. There ain't no way I could
understand these spiritual realities without physical examples that God
has given me. How could I understand the kingdom of God if I didn't know
what a king was? How could I understand spiritual warfare if I didn't
know about physical war? How would I know about taking the kingdom of
heaven by holy violence if I didn't know about waring conquests? Our King
in His TENDER care, makes us to understand great eternal realities--this
applies only to the people of faith who are seeking Him in the way of
holiness. All else will not understand--they can't.

In our Bible reading, we oftentimes want to skip over the book of
Leviticus because contains many laws, procedures, and rituals governing
life in Israel. We trudge through it and don't even know the significance
of the book.
Leviticus 11:47, To make a difference between the unclean and the
clean...

A related scripture is

Ezekiel 44:23, And they shall teach my people the difference between
the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and
the clean.

The ceremonial laws taught us to make a difference between clean and
unclean. If I did not have this physical reality, how could I understand
something invisible, the spiritual? The Lord was teaching people that
there is a difference in things. Some things are clean some are unclean.
Some things are holy some profane. Ezekiel lets us know we are to discern
between the two.

For instance, Leviticus 19:19 says don't let "thy cattle gender with a
diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither
shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee." What is
this saying? God hates a mixture. Don't mix holy with unholy. The
ceremonial law contains all types of commands and prohibitions concerning
food. But the book of Acts says all animals are now clean and can be
eaten. Instead of people trying to keep the law (which only dishonours
Christ), they need to be finding out what all this means.

**************************THE MORAL LAW****************************

The Old Testament moral law is confirmed, and expounded, in the New
Testament. THE MORAL LAW TRANSCENDS BOTH TESTAMENTS. It tells us RIGHT
AND WRONG conduct and character. Right and wrong is defined only by God.
Sin is the transgression of GOD'S LAW. Right and wrong is not relative,
it is not ephemeral and fleeting, it is not based on majority vote--God is
the Author of right and wrong. Right and wrong is found in the moral law
of the Bible. The Bible term for "moral law" would be "the law of God".

The moral law...It is good and right to worship God ALONE. It is wrong to
lie, steal, kill, commit adultery and sodomy, etc. Ain't none of this
changed. It remains the same generation after generation no matter what
country you are from. Moral law prescribes our social duties such as
"thou shalt love thy neighbor" and "thou shalt not kill", as well as our
internal attitudes--thou shalt not covet. Moral law is not a rite or a
ceremony.

Many false prophets tell you to go back and do the works of the law. To
understand this and contend with it, read Galatians.

Many false prophets tell you that you will be a slave to sin all the days
of your life. To understand this and contend with it, read Romans
chapters 6, 7, and 8 CONSECUTIVELY. Folks take one scripture out of
context to tell you you will always be under bondage to sin. Note in
these passages the following distinctions

law of God
law in my members
law of my mind
law of sin and death
law of the Spirit

Consider what Brother Paul says "and the Lord give thee understanding in
all things."

Here are few excerpted definitions from Webster's 1828--

MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. ...has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their
character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions
which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to
perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social
duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
7. In general, moral denotes something which respects the conduct of men
and their relations as social beings whose actions have a bearing on each
others's rights and happiness, and are therefore right or wrong, virtuous
or vicious; as moral character; moral views; moral knowledge; moral
sentiments; moral maxims; moral approbation; moral doubts; moral justice;
moral virtue; moral obligations, &c. Or moral denotes something which
respects the intellectual powers of man, as distinct form his physical
powers. Thus we speak of moral evidence, moral arguments, moral
persuasion, moral certainty, moral force; which operate on the mind.

Moral law, the law of God which prescribes the moral or social duties, and
prohibits the transgression of them.

MORAL'ITY, n. The doctrine or system of moral duties, or the duties of
men in their social character; ethics.
The system of morality to be gathered from the writings of ancient sages,
falls very short of that delivered in the gospel.
1. The practice of the moral duties; virtue. We often admire the
politeness of men whose morality we question.
2. The quality of an action which renders it good; the conformity of an
act to the divine law, or to the principles of rectitude. This conformity
implies that the act must be performed by a free agent, and from a motive
of obedience to the divine will. This is the strict theological and
scriptural sense of morality. But we often apply the word to actions
which accord with justice and human laws, without reference to the motives
form which they proceed.

MOR'ALLY, adv. In a moral or ethical sense; according to the rules of
morality.
By good, morally so called, bonum honestum ought chiefly to be
understood.
2. According to the rules of the divine law. An action is not in
strictness morally good, which does not proceed from good motives, or a
principle of love and obedience to the divine law and to the lawgiver.
Charity bestowed to gratify pride, or justice done by compulsion, cannot
be morally good in the sight of God.

[ November 28, 2002, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]

 

Right on, Tom!

 

I hope this helps.
Col 2:13-23
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
17 things which are a {mere} shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on {visions} he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
22 (which all {refer} {to} things destined to perish with use)-- in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, {but are} of no value against fleshly indulgence.
(NAU)

 

When foolishness prevails, Brother TomVols comes forth with sense and sensibility.

Thank you, Brother Tom.

Oh, by the way, I have never stoned to death my errant child who refuses to obey.

Cheers,

Jim

 

David Cooke, Jr.:

Isn't this merely your rationale

No, it is a longstanding distinction in Christian systematic theology, with which I happen to agree insofar as it is based on Scripture and plain reason.

For example: the letter to the Hebrews explains precisely why Christ's sacrifice is the fulfilment of the Temple rituals of the Old Covenant and why the Old Covenant is "obsolete."

I lack the time to make the argument in detail; taking the time to read some actual Christian theology is left as an exercise to the reader; a far more profitable exercise than glib and simplistic dismissals of well-reasoned distinctions.

 

TomVols said:

A good course in hermeneutics would've rendered this poll obsolete.

Couldn't have put it better or more succinctly myself. Bravo!

 

So everyone who's studied hermeneutics agrees? I guess you and Rev. Joshua had the same answers, right?</font>[/QUOTE]He said a goodcourse.

 

Of course not. But, there are good ones and bad ones. God knows for sure, and we have to figure it out the best we can.

I think I have it figured out, at least for the purposes of this thread. You and Joshua took the bad ones.

[ November 30, 2002, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]

 

Just as a point of note, the Scripture knows nothing of a distinction between moral, civil, and ceremonial provisions in the Law in terms of continuing authority. The NT is clear in Gal 5 and James 2: The Law exists as an indivisible unit. It cannot be split up into various sections. If you keep one part, you must keep it all. For the NT, all of the Law is not the authority for the believer.

This threefold distinction was a clever way to try to do exactly what Paul forbade in Gal 5 ... keep some of the Law in effect while realizing that it cleary could not all be kept in effect. Better just to go with Scripture and say the indivisible Law is not the governing authority for the NT beleiver.

 

Hmm. So if we abstain from murder because God says "thou shalt not kill," we are bound to wear clothes not made of mixed fabric, circumcise our young, offer sacrifices at the Temple, and abstain from pork?