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Of Crocodiles, Snakes and Birds

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by UTEOTW, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Reporting the content of the Times Higher Educational supplement was not a mistake.

    Your wild rant that they do not know as much about evolutionism as you - was a huge blunder. Why don't you SHOW yourself to be more well-read or informed than they are?
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    When UTEOTW reads the Times Higher Educational Supplement and then says to ME " this was only your lack of understanding speaking" we SEEE CLEARLY that UTEOTW's gloss over of facts and details has never served him - and clearly is not serving him here!

    No amount of "revisionism" is beyond UTEOTW!
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    TIMES Higher Education Supplement
    Neo-Darwinists were quick to claim that modern discoveries of molecular biology supported their theory. They said, for example, that if you analyse the DNA, the genetic blueprint, of plants and animals you find how closely or distantly they are related. That studying DNA sequences enables you to draw up the precise family tree of all living things and show how they are related by common ancestry.

    This is a very important claim and central to the theory. If true, it would mean that animals neo-Darwinists say are closely related, such as two reptiles, would have greater similarity in their DNA than animals that are not so closely related, such as a reptile and a bird.

    Fifteen years ago molecular biologists working under Dr Morris Goodman at Michigan University decided to test this hypothesis. They took the alpha haemoglobin DNA of two reptiles -- a snake and a crocodile -- which are said by Darwinists to be closely related, and the haemoglobin DNA of a bird, in this case a farmyard chicken.

    They found that the two animals who had _least_ DNA sequences in common were the two reptiles, the snake and the crocodile. They had only around 5% of DNA sequences in common -- only one twentieth of their haemoglobin DNA. The two creatures whose DNA was closest were the crocodile and the chicken, where there were 17.5% of sequences in common -- nearly one fifth. The actual DNA similarities were the _reverse_ of that predicted by neo-Darwinism. 5
    Even more baffling is the fact that radically different genetic coding can give rise to animals that look outwardly very similar and exhibit similar behaviour, while creatures that look and behave completely differently can have much in common genetically. There are, for instance, more than 3,000 species of frogs, all of which look superficially the same. But there is a greater variation of DNA between them than there is between the bat and the blue whale.

    ...

    Times Higher Education Supplement
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...31&postcount=5

    Times:
    Further, if neo-Darwinist evolutionary ideas of gradual genetic change were true, then one would expect to find that simple organisms have simple DNA and complex organisms have complex DNA.

    In some cases, this is true. The simple nematode worm is a favourite subject of laboratory study because its DNA contains a mere 100,000 nucleotide bases. At the other end of the complexity scale, humans have 23 chromosomes which in total contain 3,000 million nucleotide bases.
    Unfortunately, this promisingly Darwinian progression is contradicted by many counter examples. While human DNA is contained in 23 pairs of chromosomes, the humble goldfish has more than twice as many, at 47. The even humbler garden snail -- not much more than a glob of slime in a shell -- has 27 chromosomes. Some species of rose bush have 56 chromosomes.

    So the simple fact is that DNA analysis does _not_ confirm neo-Darwinist theory. In the laboratory, DNA analysis falsifies neo-Darwinist theory.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Richard Milton: "Dawkins was writing letters to newspaper editors alleging that I am a secret creationist and hence not to be believed. "

    (Bob notes: This according to the RULE of atheist darwinsts)

    This kind of behavior culminated in March 1995 when a British weekly newspaper, the Times Higher Education Supplement commissioned me as a freelance journalist to write a critique of Darwinism and trailered the article in one of its editions, by saying 'Next Week: Darwinism - Richard Milton goes on the attack'.


    Dawkins contacted the editor, Auriol Stevens, falsely alleged that I am a secret creationist, and covertly lobbied against the publication of my article, although he had not seen it.

    ----------------------------

    Hey I can see a little of UTEOTW in the methods and practice of that atheist darwinist - Richard Dawkins.
     
    #24 BobRyan, Aug 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2006
  5. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    This is great, Bob.

    Not only are you giving us an object lesson in how you flee from fact based discussions, you are also giving us an olject lesson in how you try to use all the fallacies at your illogical disposal to try and avoid substantative discussion.

    First off, Bob, you still have not posted anything to support your original assertion. You told us that evolution says that a crocodile should be more closely related to a snake than to a bird and that genetic testing that shows otherwise is evidence against evolution.

    I then showed that this is not what science would say at all and that the testing, in fact, confirms that predictions of science rather than contradicting it.

    You still have not addressed this obvious problem.

    Instead you have tried to distance yourself from the post by claiming that it is someone else's material.

    So what?

    You brought it here and posted it as fact. You are the one on this thread, not the THES.

    You are the one who was unable to judge even such a basic statement because you do not even understand the very basic ideas of the thing you argue against.

    Second, I guess this means that you think that an organization of teachers of school age children is a better reference for science than scientists themselves.

    Finally, the THES was wise enough to retract what you quote from, as they realized their error.

    Why can you not do the same?
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    UTEOTW's ranting aside --

    Richard Milton is starting to look more interesting all the time ...



    It is easy to see why the Times Higher Ecucational Supplement asked him to do a critical review of atheist darwinism.

    Enjoy!
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In 1995, a TV film was shown on both sides of the Atlantic entitled Too Close to the Sun, dealing with the highly controversial subject of cold fusion. The film was admirably balanced and included interviews with both experimenters and 'skeptics'. Halfway through, the film showed an interview subject who is a distinguished senior American physicist from an equally distinguished American research institution. There's nothing unusual about such an appearance -- except that this scientist appeared in silhouette, his identity disguised.
    Remember, this was not "60 Minutes" but a science programme, and he was no Cosa Nostra bag man but a professional scientist. He was concerned that if his institution discovered he had been spending research funds on a forbidden subject like cold fusion, then his research grant, or even his tenure, might be in jeopardy.
    Sadly, as explained in these pages, his fears have been fully justified by recent events:-
    • Eric Laithwaite became a 'non-person' after he addressed the Royal Society on anti-gravity.
    • Forrest Mims lost his Scientific American job after telling the editor he didn't believe in Darwinism.
    • Jacques Benveniste was dismissed by his Institute for investigating homeopathy.
    • Warwick Collins's biology career ended when be publicly identified a flaw in Darwinist theory. ​
    • Robert Jahn was demoted by Princeton for investigating paranormal phenomena in the lab. ​
    • The Times Higher Education Supplement commissioned an article criticising Darwinism but censored it following intervention by Richard Dawkins. ​
    More data compliments of Richard Milton!

    What a great guy!!​
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    That is merely "after the fact mindless rambling" UTEOTW. You are tring to coverup the LITTLE that the tautaulogy of atheist darwinism can be said to "predicte"
     
  9. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    This is good stuff Bob.

    Keep showing us that what I have said all along was your pattern really is the case.

    You made a post which you cannot defend because it was shown to not be factual.

    So instead of doing the right thing and withdrawing the post, you start your usual obfuscation, your normal smoke and mirrors.

    Can you address some part of this factually?

    I guess not when you have no facts.
     
  10. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    It would also be nice if you would set off your word for word quotes of other's material with quotes lest you appear to be repeating your plagiarism

    Speaking of which, you should have learned your lesson about trusting Milton already after he misled you about the reptile genetics thing.

    I don't know what a list of people who had their carrers interrupted by anti-gravity and the like has to do with the discussion, but the Forrest Mims statement might have some merit.

    Except that Milton gets it wrong.

    Again.

    I don't know how you can lose your job when you don't have it yet.

    It came out in an interview that Mims was a creationists. He did not get the job, someone else did. But the editor who did not hire Mims did publish him three times after the interview, so it would be hard to make too big of a case of discrimination from that.

    Oh well, back to our thread.

    Do you ever plan to address the failing of you post on the reptile genetics? Do you instead plan to keep blaiming it on someone else, ignoring that you should know enough about the subject to spot such simple mistakes before you attempt to publically criticize that subject?
     
  11. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    You are never going to own up to your mistake, here, are you? Or, alternatively, defend your original post.

    No, but we all do get an object lesson in your inability to discern good ideas from bad because of your lack of knowledge on the subject at hand.

    How can pretend to post intelligently if you fail to understand even the basics of what you criticize?
     
  12. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    Well if you will not defend or withdraw your statement, and you asked for this thread so you could do so, will you at least tell us how it feels to keep getting fooled by Milton?

    WHy did you ask for a thread if you have no defense?

    Why do you criticize a subject where you do not even know enought ospot basic and simple flaws in your argument before you post it?
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Kinda facinating that they would ask Richard Milton for a critique then have that "censored".

    Kinda interesting that you want to claim you know more than he does.

    I simply suggested that you start a thread on reptiles if you were interested. So going back to the frogs again - what where you saying about them?

    Bob
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    TIMES Higher Education Supplement
    Neo-Darwinists were quick to claim that modern discoveries of molecular biology supported their theory. They said, for example, that if you analyse the DNA, the genetic blueprint, of plants and animals you find how closely or distantly they are related. That studying DNA sequences enables you to draw up the precise family tree of all living things and show how they are related by common ancestry.

    This is a very important claim and central to the theory. If true, it would mean that animals neo-Darwinists say are closely related, such as two reptiles, would have greater similarity in their DNA than animals that are not so closely related, such as a reptile and a bird.

    Fifteen years ago molecular biologists working under Dr Morris Goodman at Michigan University decided to test this hypothesis. They took the alpha haemoglobin DNA of two reptiles -- a snake and a crocodile -- which are said by Darwinists to be closely related, and the haemoglobin DNA of a bird, in this case a farmyard chicken.

    They found that the two animals who had _least_ DNA sequences in common were the two reptiles, the snake and the crocodile. They had only around 5% of DNA sequences in common -- only one twentieth of their haemoglobin DNA. The two creatures whose DNA was closest were the crocodile and the chicken, where there were 17.5% of sequences in common -- nearly one fifth. The actual DNA similarities were the _reverse_ of that predicted by neo-Darwinism. 5
    Even more baffling is the fact that radically different genetic coding can give rise to animals that look outwardly very similar and exhibit similar behaviour, while creatures that look and behave completely differently can have much in common genetically. There are, for instance, more than 3,000 species of frogs, all of which look superficially the same. But there is a greater variation of DNA between them than there is between the bat and the blue whale.

    ...

    Times Higher Education Supplement
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...31&postcount=5

    Times:
    Further, if neo-Darwinist evolutionary ideas of gradual genetic change were true, then one would expect to find that simple organisms have simple DNA and complex organisms have complex DNA.

    In some cases, this is true. The simple nematode worm is a favourite subject of laboratory study because its DNA contains a mere 100,000 nucleotide bases. At the other end of the complexity scale, humans have 23 chromosomes which in total contain 3,000 million nucleotide bases.
    Unfortunately, this promisingly Darwinian progression is contradicted by many counter examples. While human DNA is contained in 23 pairs of chromosomes, the humble goldfish has more than twice as many, at 47. The even humbler garden snail -- not much more than a glob of slime in a shell -- has 27 chromosomes. Some species of rose bush have 56 chromosomes.

    So the simple fact is that DNA analysis does _not_ confirm neo-Darwinist theory. In the laboratory, DNA analysis falsifies neo-Darwinist theory.
     
  15. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    What are you trying to do here?

    I have already shown you what the error is here.

    Fossil evidence shows that crocodiles and birds have a more common ancestor than either do with snakes and so they should test as genetically more related.

    Do you not read!

    The challenge to you is not to simply requote the same thing over and over. A lie repeated enough times does not become the truth.

    The challenge is for you to accually support or withdraw your post.

    You can support it by showing that science doesn't really think that birds evolved from archosaurs just like crocodiles did.

    Or, failing that, you can say that your source was wrong with the genetic evidence and withdraw it.

    As it is, you just keep reprinting material that supports evolution and demonstrates your lack of knowledge of even the basics of evolution.

    How can you pretend to criticize evolution when you can't even get such simple things right?
     
  16. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    So you are content to let you post stand.

    The one where you accidentally post evidence FOR evolution and call it evidence against evolution because you do not even understand the basics of what you argue against.

    Why can you not do the right thing and withdraw the post? Even the THES withdrew the material which you cite!

    Why can't you tell us how it feels to keep being lied to by Milton and only finding out after you post and expose your inability to sort throught the facts?
     
  17. UTEOTW

    UTEOTW New Member

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    I must suppose that you are satisfied to leave this thread knowing that you actually posted information that supports evolution by accident because you do not even understand the basics.

    Two good points for me.

    First I get you putting into evidence genetic evidence that supports the fossil record and seems odd outside of the light of evolution.

    Second, I get you showing that you do not understand even simple concepts of what you criticize or else you would not have posted the material to begin with.
     
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