Featured Officer kills 17 year old:'How in the world could this happen?' Guilford family speaks out

You know this from personal experience?

You think you know what the cop was thinking?

And that proves what, a 17 year old kid isn't as smart or as properly conditioned to obey commands as you?

The officer also said or alluded that he was afraid Deven called his "militia" pals. That "fear" apparently played a role in Sgt Frost's decision to escalate the tension by attempting to pull Deven out of his vehicle before his back up arrived.

"a pothead provoking his own death" "If he had just not had that last joint before the pig stopped him . . ."

Biased much or what?

I'm with Don on this one.

 

Watched the whole thing once. Watched the last minute about a half dozen times. Cop tasered him and the kid got up and ran away. Cop followed him and there is a blurry struggle and then you hear the gunshots and the kid scream. There is about an 8-10 second time frame from the time the kid got up and ran away until the kid screams. We are supposed to believe that the kid did all that damage to the cop in that short time.

While the autopsy mentions two Taser prong marks on Deven's back, and abrasions to his forehead, chin, chest, and torso, there is no mention of blood on Devon's hands, no mention of bruised knuckles or abrasions on his hands. That's mighty strange for how beat up the cop looks in the photo, wouldn't you say?

 

I went swimming in the creek one day and was stupid enough to dive into the water before looking. My head hit the bottom and I got a small cut maybe an inch or so long on my head. I walked about a mile back home and had to wring the blood out my tee shirt that I was using to apply pressure to the wound twice before I made it there.

Even small head wounds bleed like crazy.

 

No It's not exactly like that Zaac. We're supposed to side with the police without thinking and call anyone that questions them, their actions, training, motives or reports, idiots, morons, anti American, cop haters, conspiracy theorists, anarchists, dopers etc., etc. . . .

Like I said earlier I'm with Don on this one. Mistakes were made by both parties.

In my mind Sgt Frost's fear of militias played the biggest role in this tragedy. Is this fear among the police justified or is it just a product of the SPLC's suspicion and hatred of "right -wing extremists" that believe in Jesus Christ, the family, the constitution, national sovereignty and the 2nd amendment?

 

It's legal in this state. But it's illegal to operate a motor vehicle with those THC levels. Anybody knows it dulls the senses and can cause paranoia (harshing the buzz).

If he had thought he was drinking, he probably would've asked him that. Cops do that.

How was the cop supposed to know the pothead's age?

His parents tried to tell him that all those videos he saw was not an accurate portrait of reality. This isn't dog training, cops have the authority to demand your license if you are pulled over. And that resisting arrest is a crime and that assaulting a cop is never a good idea. Deven was so smart he's dead.

The cop wanted to go ahead an arrest him before his friends showed up. Deven could have just told him the truth, that his girlfriend could supply the license but he didn't.

Sure you are. But this lawsuit will still go nowhere.

 

That's not what I asked.

Cops do a lot of things but that doesn't mean you can read their mind.

Same way I can tell you're biased. Keen observation.

I think I'd like to see proof of that statement.

It isn't? And yet you're telling me Deven should have acted like one of Pavlov's dogs.

So you do know "the pothead's" name after all.

Well, obviously we can't have cops waiting around for the militia to show up. They might bring a copy of the constitution and Sgt Frost might run out of ammo before they get to the bill of rights.

Yeah I already ceded that point.

What an amazing ability you have. Not only can you read my mind, the cop's mind, the "pothead's" mind, his parents mind you can also read the judge and jurors minds!

Is that a natural ability or is there an online course that teaches it? But of course you already knew I was going to ask that. Right?

 

Report says they ended up in the snow on the ground at the side of the road. Since they initialing tussled next to the car in the middle of the road I assume the kid tried to get away and the fight continued on the curb area.

Don't have the actual autopsy, just the report. How do you account for the head shot being done in close enough proximity to leave soot marks on Deven's skin? All other shots were from an "intermediate range" with some stippling. The only way I can reconcile this is that the head shot was the last one taken. If it were the first one taken why would the cop keep firing?

 

In the case of the police it's probably the SPLC training coupled with the idea that a cop's first priority is to "make it home safe".

In the case of the public it's probably a combination of media manipulation and the idea that the best way to deal with problems is to increase and institutionalize those policies that create the problems. And that's probably a product of media manipulation as well.

 

Physics. Head shot at close range causes the body to recoil. If the cop has lost enough self-control that he's just pulling the trigger, then he's continuing to fire as the body is falling away from him.

 

Question: had the kid (I refuse to use "child" for a 17-year old) had any previous run-ins with law enforcement?

The thing I can't reconcile is where the militia thing comes from. How do you get from "you flashed your lights at me" to "I was afraid he was calling for his militia buddies to come help him"?

Did the kid have any ties to militia? How about his family? What militia(s) are in that area?

 

The head shot entered the top right half of the kid's head and went downward right to left ending at the base of the back of the neck. So the cop, who's afraid he's going to black out, shoots the kid sitting on him in the head, (using his left hand?) and then continues to fire as the now limp body is falling away. If so, why are all the shots going in a downward path through the kids body?

 

Yeah, that pretty much blows my explanation out of the water.

 

Not going to quote you, you're projecting - the cop is always wrong to you. your view is that they're cold-blooded jackboot killers that are out of control. Fine, I understand that, but if you really believe that, you ought to keep your contact with the law to a minimum, not escalate the situation.


No, from all accounts, Deven had no criminal record or even problems in school. Again, his parents said he was on some anti-authority kick right before he was shot and spent hours viewing videos of police incidents. It's all in that one autopsy report.

I think he was 17 and that age you think you are invincible. His constitutional rights weren't violated at any time although he was so stoned he couldn't even understand the officer half the time. He tried to tell Deven there was no badge number yet he still kept rambling on about it. He had multiple warnings and this was all caught on camera so there's no "mind reading" involved.

There's no case whether you want to believe it or not. Deven assaulted a cop who retaliated with deadly force. He knew the cop had a taser and a gun but his judgement was impaired from the MJ. The cop's account was consistent with the evidence and all the videotape provided.

I don't know that much about this part of Michigan but I have heard militias were all over the Upper Peninsula region. Who knows why the cop thought that, maybe he had just had some encounter with one of them or there was some symbol on the car. Deven was a young white man (not a kid, kids can't join the service) and fit the profile.

There is no case here and I think the parents know it and that explains their delay in filing it. I can have "bias" since I'm not the judge nor the jury just like you have yours. We'll see, done.

 

777 - would you please clarify who you were responding to? Because it seems you addressed some of my questions--but you've totally misunderstood me. I absolutely do NOT believe the cop is always wrong. In fact, I've argued on the side of law enforcement MANY times on this board.

I've looked at the situation as objectively as I can, utilizing my personal experience and knowledge of when one is authorized to use deadly force (intent, opportunity, and capability). I would have agreed to it being a good shooting, except for Frost shooting seven times.

I asked the further questions to gain knowledge about the policeman's state of mind, to help determine why he may have been more inclined to use deadly force.

As I previously stated, mistakes were made by both sides. Frankly, this officer made an error in judgment when he lost his temper and tried to pull the young man out of the car. He should have waited for the back-up he had called for. Once he made that error, the situation kept escalating, and that error led to more.

BUT, the young man made several errors himself. As pointed out, he was under the influence of drugs, which probably led to his next error of being uncooperative (because he feared being discovered); and his continued attitude kept fueling the errors made by the policeman.

Back when I used to do that stuff, when I had a weapon pointed at someone, knowing that if they didn't do exactly what I told them to do at that moment that I was going to pull the trigger and end them -- I (me, myself, I) had the authority; but more importantly, I had the *responsibility* to control the situation. And that's where I find fault with this patrolman.

BUT, to reiterate: the young man is NOT blameless in this situation. He contributed to the situation. To say otherwise is to simply try to put all the blame on one side, while ignoring that "it takes two to argue."

 

Great post, Don.

In these sorts of cases I typically fall on the side of the police but after weighing all factors the situation never should have gotten to the point where this kid was shot. The kid was being belligerent and obstructive while the cop was being impatient and exercised bad judgment.

There seems to be an attitude by some on this board whereby it's OK for police to operate under the idea of "show me your papers or you'll get what you deserve", where that something they deserve is death. Cops are too quick nowadays to go for the gun rather than trying to defuse the situation some other way.

I wanted to bring up this news story to my 15 year old son during our dinnertime discussions but I couldn't figure out how to frame the discussion. The kid was shot dead for (essentially) flashing his high beams.