Officially coming out now

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Gina B, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Against this war.

    Yes, I was for it at first. I was wrong.

    I cannot view the photos of men, women, and children bleeding and screaming and dismembered, from both the United States and Iraq (and elsewhere) and state that any of it is justified.

    I've watched people gloat over "victories", victories which were attained by destruction.

    I've watched people glory in the death of yet another American or another Iraqui.

    Christian, Muslim, or anything in between or around, this is wrong. Our children are dying, and their children are dying. Imagine your own child alive but with their skin blown off and bone exposed, screaming in pain, and ask if this is how to proceed.

    Many Christians have said that an "eye for an eye" is Biblical. Yes it is, but does that truly mean that if someone causes you to lose an eye, you avenge the act by causing him to be blind too? No, the evil-doer must recompense the person. If he fails to do that, the law will be your protection, and if that fails, remember that all is in the hands of God.

    Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    Pray for peace.
    Peace is the absence of unrest, not the presence of a winner in a war.
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    Gina, welcome! [​IMG]

    As one who has opposed this war from the start, I am glad to see you and many many others, see the light.
     
  3. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Chamberlin would have been proud.
     
  4. webdog

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    Gina, you must really have a problem with God commanding the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child, and even beast to gain the land promised to them.
     
  5. Patrick Daniel

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    Doing the right thing is not allows an easy path to follow.

    We, as a country and as a faith, must not fear time such as these. We must stand tall against those who would destroy this country and our faith.
     
  6. Scott J

    Scott J
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    So you would have preferred to leave Saddam in power... a man who we now KNOW had ambitions to support terrorism against the US. Would you really prefer that the terrorists now resisting PEACE in Iraq be plying their trade in the streets of US cities with the support of an even more powerful Saddam?

    When evil is opposed it very seldom walks away without a fight... that necessitates "victories which were attained by destruction". The alternative of course is defeat by destruction. The people we are fighting weren't going to leave our allies or us alone. It is naively short sighted to think that the blood shed in Iraq is major compared to what we historically know as the fruits of appeasement to fanatics.

    Because allied leaders prior to WWII did nothing to stop the Nazis and their radical ideology... 60 million people died through destruction like the world has never known.

    BTW, according to the History Channel, the Baath party has its roots in the ideologies of Nazi fascism.

    And why?... Because maniacs who will neither stop killing their children or ours until we submit to them are fighting against the peace.
    Imagine how these scenes will be multiplied if the perpetrators are encouraged by our refusing to resist them.

    The law cannot protect without enforcement.

    The context of this is NOT national security.

    Peace is NOT submission to oppressors and fanatics who would kill you in a moment for being nothing but a Christian and an American while asserting yourself to be their equal.
     
  7. Gina B

    Gina B
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    You're right. I'm changing my mind back again, based on this new information that Iraq is America's promised land. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Magnetic Poles

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    BTW, I was all for going after OBL and the Taliban, as they had ties to the 9/11 events. But Iraq was not a threat, had not threatened us, and was not worth one American life. Saddam was neutered by sanctions and no-fly zones, and could not act against us, even if he wanted to do so.

    If the resources of this ill-advised invasion had been put into getting OBL we would have him by now. If some of the money were used for the Border Patrol, we would have secure borders. Instead we are in a quagmire that Bush plans to leave to future administrations. He has taken the goodwill of the world and squandered it, making the US despised in many parts of the world.
     
  9. Salamander

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    I say put Saddam back in power, then go over there and kill the (.....) and do it right.

    Utopia will never be at the discretion of the minds of men, or women. Until then, we are faced with the atrocities of war.

    I cannot make peace with a man who is bent on killing me if I don't convert to his religion, if I don't allow him to keep killing innocents becuase they don't convert, or don't allow the same to take over my assets and the freedom deemed to me by our Creator to provide the means necessary to survive and maintain life according to those same freedoms. It is everyone's responsibility to see to it that every people on this planet are afforded the same freedoms, or we would all be hypocrites!
     
  10. Scott J

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    Hindsight is 20-20 concerning the immediacy of his threat. However, the worldwide intelligence community told Bush that Saddam had WMD's. That is a fact. Had this been true and Bush had not acted, then Monday morning QB's such as yourself would be grinding him for not acting on the concensus of professionals.

    Not according to the military. OBL has used political protection to avoid capture.

    We could have gone into Pakistan after him... and probably de-stabilize that country... a nuclear country... completely.
    No. Instead we don't have an arms race between Iran and Iraq. Instead, we don't have Saddam funding terrorism efforts against US cities. Instead, our children will not have to face a world held hostage by the WMD's of Usay and Qusay.
    If you think there was ever in "good will" of a lasting variety on the part of our detractors then you are a fool.
     
  11. blackbird

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    The Bible teaches that God is a God of war! And David said that it was God who "taught his hands to war"

    There are those who oppose war in just about every war---but war is necessary for the destruction of wicked.

    Scott J says that "Chamberlin would be proud!!" But it was Churchill who could see through all the mud in Berlin!! Said Churchill of Chamberlin---"They sought peace, but they got war!"

    In the case of the current war in Iraq--don't let nobody fool you into believing this is "Bush's War"-----we did as Churchill suggested---we sought peace---but we got war!!

    Peace is not the absence of unrest! Peace is the presence of God in the middle of unrest!! As King David said in the hot, hot heat of being pursued by Saul---"I lay my head down and slept. I awoke and the Lord sustained me."
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    Nice ad hominem, Scott. Attack the person, not the subject matter.

    Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:22

    "...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
     
  13. Salamander

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    He did use the means of others to atack the USA. You would have to keep your head pretty deep in the sand it's in to keep believing what you just said.

    The USA is already despised by the same who despise us now. Introducing democracy to a region that is begging for something better is not a quagmire. Working on our border problems is not ignoring the present problems but is the conscious efforts to see to it that our borders aren't so easily crossed. This glass menagerie your type lives in cannot discern the magnitude of what you're demanding. You're living in a world that only is as big as the globe in your office, but the world is much bigger and you should consider things according to the scale of that globe and see the actual size more clearly. You're accusing our Commander in Chief without anything but a liberal bias. You're murmuring against the very man that God has placed in the position as President of the USA, thus you are also murmuring against God in the same respect.

    I therefore lose all respect for you until you REPENT!
     
  14. Gina B

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    Scott, how many Americans were killed by Iraq in the two years prior to our attack on Iraq?

    Concerning national security, why are we safer attacking Iraq? So far, the threat to our security is higher than before we did so.

    Have we at least retained our freedom? No. I have less freedom now than I did before Iraq.

    I would hope I would choose to die at the hands of a terrorist than kill one innocent Iraqi to save myself. I have peace in knowing that justice will prevail in the end, in the hands of God.

    Now, if Iraq had attacked us, you might have a reason to make me rethink. If what Magnetic Poles stated concerning the sanctions and other unjust acts we levelled against Iraq prior to the war were untrue, I'd have cause to rethink.

    However, they didn't, and it isn't.

    Have you actually looked at the photos of the dead and mangled?

    War isn't an idea, it isn't a noble thing where the good and great go out and conquer the terrible and evil.
    The majority of those who die are innocent.

    The reality of war is pain, torn flesh, death, and suffering.
    Go view photos of what war really is, come back, and tell me that our Father has put his stamp of approval on it.
     
  15. Magnetic Poles

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    You again mix politics with your personal religion. Did God also place Bill Clinton in power? How about Adolph Hitler?

    Last time I checked, the Supreme Court/Electoral College put Bush in power. I don't care if you respect me or not, and Bush is not the second coming of Christ. One has no obligation to "repent" for political opinions. Dissent IS patriotic. This nation was founded by dissenters who rose against the "God appointed" rule of King George III. Your view holds no credibility.
     
  16. Patrick Daniel

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    I've seen what appeasement and ignoring the rise Muslim problem got us. I've seen the aftermath of people jumping from the WTC. Like it or not this is a Holy war, and we didn't start it.
     
  17. Salamander

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    You again mix politics with your personal religion. Did God also place Bill Clinton in power? How about Adolph Hitler?</font>[/QUOTE]Wrong! Right! Right! politics now has to do with personal liberties and protecting the native land from attack by outsiders?

    Oh, OK, so those political parties are now more powerful than God. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Dissent is only patriotic when it is to the betterment of the people and that to the effort to establish freedom from tyranny.

    Go start your own nation and you can go appease the tyrants of the world by "better/ more civilized" means. Meanwhile, I am an American by the Grace of Almighty God!

    I believe in the Sovereignty of our nation, your type would hand it over to the un. [​IMG]
     
  18. blackbird

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    Gina---what are your views on the coming war at Megeddo??
     
  19. Mike McK

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    Looks like they've learned the lessons of Vietnam well: appeal to their emotions and once the war becomes uncomfortable for them, Americans will turn tail and run in a heartbeat.

    Congratulations.

    It has nothing to with revenge. It is about stopping evil men from killing and terrorizing the innocent.

    Irrelevant. Jesus is speaking to His followers about how they are to react in the face of persecution for the sake of the Gospel, not to the state, concerning it's role in the protection of it's citizens.

    Remember, Jesus is the same God whom Paul tells us ordained the government to wield the sword (that means to kill) in order to protect the innocent and punish the wicked.

    Do you really think that every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine don't pray for peace more than anyone?

    You say "pray for peace", but Jesus said "blessed are the peacemakers", not "blessed are the peace prayers".

    Pray for peace but be prepared to fight when there is no peace.

    Actually, no, peace isn't the absence of unrest.

    Peace is the absence of threat to the safety and liberty of the innocent.
     
  20. Magnetic Poles

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    "My type" did start our own nation...perhaps you have heard of it. It's called The United States of America. It is ruled by "We the People", not by an authoritarian ruling by divine right.
     

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