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Oh and Christian, Be Sure and Vote for Mitt

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by saturneptune, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Exactly...

    IF it comes down to Romney, then a vote for Romney is the only logical choice, for at least he has a quasi-Christian worldview and the morality that goes with it. That is vastly superior to the other choice, where the worldview is fully Marxist.

    Would another choice be preferrable? Yes Sir! Will we get another choice? Time will tell.

    Should we support Romney in the primary phase of this election cycle? Nope...

    I look at Romney this way... He came behind McCain, who was himself not really the man we wished to take the White House. Now, we're acting like he is top of the heap. McCain was ushered into the nomination because of a LOT of liberal media help and some blatant instances of liberals crossing over their party line to vote in the Republican primaries.

    Just like this year, they will/would do ANYTHING to make sure that a TRUE conservative does not gain the White House. God knows what might happen! He might also have a super majority in the Congress and overturn Obamacare, shut down the Departments of Education, Housing, Energy, Homeland Security, and EPA, appoint conservative justices to the Supreme Court and the other federal courts, clip the wings of welfare and other entitlements, and kick the United Nations out of America along with their burdensome budget that we mostly carry. :wavey:

    Then, after ceasing all that extraneous spending, he might start to deal with the tax issues, foster a climate for business and commerce growth, and start dealing with America's debt problem (millstone is more like it!). :thumbs:
     
  2. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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    I find it extremely sad and discouraging to see any Christian supporting Romney in either the primaries OR the general election just because it seems logical or expedient. If life is not our first consideration, what else is there? I find nothing "quasi-Christian" or moral about the following:

    1994: Romney backed federal funding of abortion and the codification of Roe v. Wade. "Romney supports a federal health care plan option that includes abortion services, would vote for a law codifying the 1972 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion and backs federal funding for abortions as long as states can decide if they want the money, [a spokesman] said." (Ed Hayward, "Anti-Abortion Group Endorses Romney Bid," Boston Herald, 9/8/94)

    1999: Romney said, "When I am asked if am I pro-choice or pro-life, I say I refuse to accept either label." (Glen Warchol, "This Is The Place, But Politics May Lead Romneys Elsewhere," The Salt Lake Tribune, 2/14/99)

    2002: Running for Massachusetts Governor, Romney said he was "devoted" to the pro-choice position. "I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose, and am devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard. I will not change any provisions of Massachusetts' pro-choice laws." (2002 Romney-O'Brien Gubernatorial Debate, Suffolk University, Boston, MA, 10/29/02)

    2005: Romney Considered Abortion-Rights Supporter By Pro-Life Groups - Aide Claimed His Position Had Not Changed. "[Massachusetts Citizens for Life] considers Romney to be an abortion-rights supporter, as do national antiabortion groups such as the Family Research Council. ... [Romney aide Eric] Fehrnstrom said the governor's position has not changed on either sex education or abortion." (Scott S. Greenberger, "Roe V. Wade Omitted From Proclamation," The Boston Globe, 3/25/05)

    2006: Romneycare provides taxpayer-funded abortions. Abortions are covered in the Commonwealth Care program that Romney created as Governor. Under the program, abortions are available for a copay of $50. (Menu of Health Care Services: www.mass.gov/Qhic/docs/cc_benefits1220_pt234.pdf )

    These facts are just a small sampling from this site: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2786522/posts
     
  3. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    I'd vote for an atheist that lined up with my political viewpoints over any Republican except Ron Paul.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean you did the last time around.
     
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    It is really very simple.

    NUMBER 1. Obama opposed legislation protecting born-alive failed abortions

    Obama has consistently refused to support legislation that would define an infant who survives a late-term induced-labor abortion as a human being with the right to live. He insists that no restriction must ever be placed on the right of a mother to decide to abort her child.

    On March 30, 2001, Obama was the only Illinois senator who rose to speak against a bill that would have protected babies who survived late term labor-induced abortion. Obama rose to object that if the bill passed, and a nine-month-old fetus survived a late-term labor-induced abortion was deemed to be a person who had a right to live, then the law would "forbid abortions to take place." Obama further explained the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment does not allow somebody to kill a child, so if the law deemed a child who survived a late-term labor-induced abortion had a right to live, "then this would be an anti-abortion statute."

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

    NUMBER 2. With a Republican in the White House there is the possibility of pro-life legislation. With a democrat there is none as Clinton proved when he twice vetoed the Ban on Partial Birth Abortions. And hopefully a Republican would not appoint Justices who are avid abortionists!
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    May have to SN but anything beats Obama. He makes Jimmy Carter look presidential!
     
  7. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    You can keep saying that all you want, but it all boils down to the fact that if it's a Obama/Romney election, if you don't vote you are helping Obama.
     
  8. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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    You can vote for a pro-abortion guy if you want, matt, but I can not do that in my conscience before God. God is not an American, a Republican, or a Democrat, but He did say Thou Shalt Not Murder. So yes, I'll keep saying it as long as I have breath. And I won't vote for a murderer, and I'll let God sort it out for me.



    1994: Romney backed federal funding of abortion and the codification of Roe v. Wade. "Romney supports a federal health care plan option that includes abortion services, would vote for a law codifying the 1972 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion and backs federal funding for abortions as long as states can decide if they want the money, [a spokesman] said." (Ed Hayward, "Anti-Abortion Group Endorses Romney Bid," Boston Herald, 9/8/94)

    1999: Romney said, "When I am asked if am I pro-choice or pro-life, I say I refuse to accept either label." (Glen Warchol, "This Is The Place, But Politics May Lead Romneys Elsewhere," The Salt Lake Tribune, 2/14/99)

    2002: Running for Massachusetts Governor, Romney said he was "devoted" to the pro-choice position. "I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose, and am devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard. I will not change any provisions of Massachusetts' pro-choice laws." (2002 Romney-O'Brien Gubernatorial Debate, Suffolk University, Boston, MA, 10/29/02)

    2005: Romney Considered Abortion-Rights Supporter By Pro-Life Groups - Aide Claimed His Position Had Not Changed. "[Massachusetts Citizens for Life] considers Romney to be an abortion-rights supporter, as do national antiabortion groups such as the Family Research Council. ... [Romney aide Eric] Fehrnstrom said the governor's position has not changed on either sex education or abortion." (Scott S. Greenberger, "Roe V. Wade Omitted From Proclamation," The Boston Globe, 3/25/05)

    2006: Romneycare provides taxpayer-funded abortions. Abortions are covered in the Commonwealth Care program that Romney created as Governor. Under the program, abortions are available for a copay of $50. (Menu of Health Care Services: www.mass.gov/Qhic/docs/cc_benefits1220_pt234.pdf )


    He also refuses to sign the pro-life pledge which includes the goal of electing only pro-life Justices to the Supreme Court. I wonder why?

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2786522/posts
     
    #48 PamelaK, Jan 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2012
  9. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    I've been voting since 1976. I've never voted for a democrat and I can't see any scenario where I ever will. I have however voted time and time again for a republican that has betrayed me (except for maybe Reagan). Never again. I will either vote for a third party candidate or stay home unless the republican is someone like Ron Paul, that has an actual record of non-compromise and true conservative principles. Otherwise, it's all rigged. Might was well "waste" your vote on someone that might not get elected but does in fact represent your views. Or you can vote for the liberal with the D behind his name or the liberal with the R behind his name.
     
  10. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    But yet you say you'll support Santorum. Santorum has said that he would agree on legislation that had exceptions for rape and incest. You will compromise in Santorum's case, but you won't in any other case? If you are going to keep touting the same line over and over at least get consistent!
     
  11. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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    matt, I've posted this twice in different threads. Here it is for a third time. He does not support abortion in rape and incest.


    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/santorum-abortions-only-traumatize-rape-vict
     
  12. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    He does not personally support abortion in those cases, but he would vote for legislation that contains those exemptions! It doesn't matter what he personally believes, it only matters what he would vote for.

     
  13. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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    matt, that's from 2008, and my video is from a recent debate in the last few months. I'm not sure what he was thinking at the time, or if he may have even been misguided and then changed his mind for the better. I might just have to write him and ask him, but til then, I have to go from what he stated in the video.
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I recall in 2008 the Republicans were getting dumped on by some on this Forum because the Ban on Partial Birth Abortions, passed twice by the Republican Congress and vetoed twice by Clinton and finally signed into law by Bush, did not stop all abortions.

    Any legislation that reduces the slaughter of unborn children should be supported. It is a fact that when the democrats control Congress no legislation restricting abortions has passed.
     
  15. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the video reflects his personal views (which I agree with). His statements in 2008 show that he would compromise some of his personal views in order to get legislation passed that he felt was a step in the right direction. I happen to agree with him on that as well.

    Santorum's stance on abortion is exactly like mine in the hypothetical situation of Obama versus Romney. I would vote for Romney because he gives us more pro-life than Obama.
     
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Actually, it was from 2006. His thinking was that, "It is an attempt for me to try to see if we can find common ground to actually make progress in limiting the other abortions," Santorum told the late Tim Russert.

    He's obviously changed his mind since then so people should stop posting an interview from 6 years ago alleging that Santorum is OK with abortion in certain circumstances.

    Presidential hopeful Rick Santorum: Doctors who perform abortions should face criminal charges

    BY CHRISTINE ROBERTS
    DAILY NEWS WRITER
    Monday, June 13, 2011

    Presidential hopeful Rick Santorum said that doctors who perform abortions should face criminal charges Sunday night on "Meet the Press".

    "I believe that life begins at conception and that life should be guaranteed under the Constitution," Santorum told the show's host David Gregory. "That is a person."

    Santorum asserted that he would not support abortion in cases of rape or incest, either.

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...abortion-hyde-amendment-face-criminal-charges
     
  17. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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    Ok, I would still have to look closer at those quotes to see if that was what he was really saying. You may be correct. I'm not sure I could agree with him if that is his true position. However, you just said you agreed with him on that, so why are you calling his pro-life supporters inconsistent? You are pro-life as well and agree, so wouldn't that make you inconsistent as well?
     
  18. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    No, it wouldn't make me inconsistent. If faced with the possibility of two issues:

    A: Lots of abortion
    B: Some abortion, but not as much as A

    I will vote for B. That's my consistent position on voting for Romney (if he's the Repub candidate) and my position on agreeing with Santorum's compromise.

    You have shown inconsistency. You have shown that you wouldn't vote for Romney which is B), yet you'll vote for Santorum who will compromise.
     
  19. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

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    matt, you can go back and see that I've just responded to you by saying that A, if he changed for the better then I can still vote for him, but that I would pursue it, but until I had an answer I would have to go with the more recent video that says he does not support it- not the quote from years back. and B, that if he is indeed compromising as you said, that I don't think I can agree with him on it, but again, I would have to wait for the answer on that as I said. Please go back and read again and don't accuse me of saying something I didn't. And if you say you are not being inconsistent, I'll go with that and take your word for it and assume I am just not understanding correctly your position. What I THOUGHT your position was was that you were accusing Rick Santorum's pro-life supporters of being inconsistent because they were going to vote for him even though he supported abortion in those two cases, as you understood his quote to say, but yet you as a pro-lifer said you were perfectly fine with and agreed with his compromise. That didn't make sense to me and sounded inconsistent, but apparently I am not understanding you correctly. Thanks for the conversation. I've honestly enjoyed it and need to research a couple things.
     
    #59 PamelaK, Jan 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2012
  20. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    There seems to be two trains of thought in the political world.

    One is "all or nothing." In this philosophy, one either is "all in" or "not at all."

    The other is "lets make progress on this issue." In this philosophy, one attempts to gain ground even though realizing that some compromise must be taken at first in order to start the process.

    Persons who support the "all in" concept would not accept Santorum's earlier statement, that while personally seeing life as beginning at conception and that all efforts should be made to protect the sanctity of life, in order to make PROGRESS in this case where we currently have a "take life for any reason" policy one might vote for a certain provision as long as ground is gained.

    Santorum has recognized that he cannot please everyone. And so, apparently has taken a stand for the "all in" position that he has held personally all the while he has held public office instead of offering the compromise position as he had earlier in the effort to gain some ground while this issue was up for debate.

    I see merit in both positions. We CERTAINLY must start somewhere to end this accursed practice in America. We also CERTAINLY hold to a sanctity of life, from conception, as a worldview consistent with Christian belief. Santorum holds that same view.

    Is it not better to gain SOME ground, or ought we allow ALL abortions to continue without abatement until we can acheive an "all or nothing" stance?

    If there is any apparent waffling on Santorum's part, it is in all likelyhood driven by his efforts to acheive SOME MEASURE of gain in the fight against the taking of human life while holding to a personal view that is much more strident than that.



    Back to Romney...

    This article featured on Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...dy-to-elect-first-lds-president-survey-shows/
     
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