Oh Pagan Tree

The founder of the Salvation Army was criticized for collecting monies in the local pubs. In response he said, "I will have their money. The devil has had it long enough."

Well, the pagans had the tree long enough and Luther was one who decided it was better serving the Lord.

By the way, another idol which robs more time than the telly is sports!

Cheers,

Jim

 

Wow, this tree thing has really touched a nerve. Isn't that very interesting?! Now that we have pointed out everyone's personal idols wouldn't it behoove all of us to do what even the New Testament commands and put away idolatry? Somehow I don't believe there will be one of us willing to be the first. As I said before, I have a tree. I have only spoken on this issue because I felt that a member of BB was being mocked for his convictions.

 

Watch out. You might be accused on donning gay apparel.

 

I don't usually side with tree huggers, but on this one I have to say that God is more pleased with someone decorating a tree in celebration of Christs birth than a Grinch worried about what some pagan may have done 500 years ago.

 

By the way, I haven't had a tree in years, but this is making me think about getting one so my kids don't get holier than thou and judgemental about what their brothers and sisters in Christ are doing. Or, more likely, that I would make them into a weaker brother who sees this as some evil object.

 

Point taken... But don't judge me to be a "idol worshipper" because we have a Christmas tree.. Fair enough?

Yes.. it is OK to redeem something from paganism. God redeemed us.. see Jim's post a few posts back about the Salvation army.
And stating an opinion is not mockery

Very subjective there.. I never called him stupid.. just his allegations that those of us with Christmas trees are idol worshippers, which is against the rules as well.

Very wise advice.

Judging someone's salvation based on them having a Christmas tree is very idle words.. I agree.

This one does have me confused.. This past summer antiaging had a whole thread devoted to his theory about how the Roman Catholic Church is using TVs to spy on people in the world...
But now that thread seems to have disappeared. Who is able to make threads disappear around here?

It is strange that when I am accused of making a false allegation, the thread to prove it just disappears into thin air.
Can someone help me find it.. maybe I am looking in the wrong places...

Someone help me before someone calls me a Liar!
I remember ABCGrad, Bitsy, Rbell, and others.. .even Pal was on there talking about Ward Cleaver, and tin foil, and how Antiaging's ideas were ludicrous...

And crosses to the Romans stood for death... and criminals...
Things change meaning...

AMEN... but it is up to the individual. Remember, Soul liberty.

Please tell Anti the same.. I have good reasons to put up a Christmas tree, like I said earlier, it stands to me for the eternal life Jesus gave.
It also stands for the love my family has for each other.. one of the first ornaments that goes on the tree is a bow that was in our wedding... 19 yrs ago.. we put it up on our anniversary every year, and as a tradition that means a lot to my family, I HAVE GOOD REASONS FOR MY CONVICTIONS. But this thread is devoted to calling those of us that have trees baal worshippers...

We should teach them then... ever been in a service where the church decorates a Chrismon tree? Very spiritual.

So now you call me a hypocrite.. Thanks.

I am going to try to stay away from this thread.

But I don't appreciate you or antiaging calling Christians with Christmas trees, hypocrites, and baal worshippers...

 

After further consideration...

I apologize to DHK and Antiaging for remarks that may be taken as making fun of someone's convictions.

I am sorry.
Please forgive me.

Now I will try to stay away...

But I would like to know what happened to that missing thread.. Am I the only one that remembers it?

 

No, I didn't call you a hypocrite, or didn't mean to. If you look at the post you were responding to I mentioned the nation of America twice. The "you" was not personal, but generic, referring to Americans (and Canadians) in general. It was not a personal attack. I am sorry if you took it that way.

 

That's OK, DHK... I see it now.

I am sorry for being heated.. .
I guess I have had a bad day!

 

Maybe one of the mods' TV's told them to delete it.

 

No problem.
Here is the way I see it.
The matter of having a Christmas tree; celebrating Christmas, etc., is a matter of soul liberty for each and every believer. The principles we need to go by are found in Romans 14.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
--If I am not fully persuaded in my own mind that I am doing the right thing then I won't do it. As for me, I am not fully persuaded that putting up a Christmas tree is the right thing to do. Therefore I, in good conscience, could never do it. You (others) may be different. As long as your are fully persuaded that you are doing the right thing (or are not doing the wrong thing) then, that decision is up to you. It is a matter of soul liberty. We are not to judge each other in these matters.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
--This is the other principle that Paul sets forth. The verse is not speaking of salvation, and the word "damned" means "condemned" as one's conscience condemns oneself. Guilt condemns. Thus Paul says: "whatsoever is not of faith is sin." If I cannot put up a tree or celebrate Christmas in faith (in confidence in the Lord that I am doing right), then it is sin. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Someone once put it very simply: "If in doubt, don't."
That basically sums it up.
Again, it is a matter of soul liberty. Each person needs to study the issue out on their own, come to their own conclusion, and then avoid judging their brother for the decision he has made.
Having that basic understanding there is still nothing wrong in discussing the subject.

 

I guess there could be another thought as well. All my years in ministry, I never had a Christmas tree...a personal thing. Some people said, however, that I didn't celebrate Christmas as a minister. They couldn't grasp my reasons. Did I become a stumbling block to those people,,,,,,,,as a minister?

The tree is amoral in itself.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I've thumbed throught the Bible and I can't find any mention of an axe used to carve a tree.

I use the King James 1611 edition and I will quote JEREMIAH 10'verse 3.
"For the custon of the people are vain:for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe."
It doesn't explain how they design the tree.
Could you quote the same verse if you are using a different version of a Bible.
This Bible, the 1611 leaves no definite type of tree, or how it is carved.
Thank you

All that the 1611 say's that the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. I don't won't to read something in to it, but on the other hand I don't won't to enlarge some other meaning into it. One would be just as bad as the other.

 

Matt Black,

Baubles??? What are Baubles???

Are you over there across the pond a different sect of pagans than us? :wavey:

Would it maybe be..... "ornaments"? :thumbs:



As for me...I dont think I am a full blown pagan, like Annsi.

I think I am a partial pagan.

My only Christmas thing is a lamp thing a sister from church made for me about 3 years ago. Its a bowl filled with red, blue, yellow and green marbles in it. Along with that it has that good smelling stuff in it. Po-per-reee. (I think)

And its got a light at the bottom of it. I plug it in, it lights up real pretty and puts the po-per-ree scent in the air.

Thats it. It lookes "christmasy" and I think of her kindness whenever I look at it. The only other thing I do is give friends hand delivered Christmas cards. I dont send them in the mail, I deliver them all personally, with a box of candy. (except for the few that live far away. I send those)

Wait.

I read somewhere that pagans give other pagans gifts sometimes, so......I guess I AM A FULL PAGAN after all! :laugh:

Yippeeee!


:godisgood:

 

Antiaging...

From your link...

So what?

Most people here are aware that the Dec 25 date is no where near when Christ was born and most all of us know about that pagan festivals concerning the Dec 25 date.

I say again...SO WHAT???

It doesnt make an ounce of differance.

(((WE ARENT PAGANS))), and we do not worship who the pagans worship.

We are (((CHRISTIANS!))) :wavey:

We are not worshipping who the pagans worshipped, we are worshipping the true God (Father Son and Holy Spirit), and in particular, acknowledging the fact that Christ was born one day long ago into this earthly existance, to redeem us.

Why is that so difficult for those of your persuasion?

We are expected to be worshipful towards God every day of our lives, and that includes Dec 25.

What do you do...refuse to worship God from 12 midnight Dec 24 to 12 midnight Dec 25th so as to not transgress? :tonofbricks:


:godisgood:

 

So when did you last see me offer worship to my Christmas tree? Think carefully before you repeat such careless accusations of idolatry...

Plus what Alive in Christ said above re Antiaging's link

 

Aye, and it's but a small step from that to singing "Hey, nonnie nonnie", and then I really will be worried!

 

As with theology, so with language generally: Winston had it right when he spoke of two nations (or should that now be pagan cults?) divided by a common language. 'Baubles' are those shiny (usually gold or silver) thin glass spheres which one suspends from the branches. Other items which may also be suspended include mini-Santas (don't forget that 'Santa' is an anagram of 'Satan' , which is why we Pure Ones in the UK refer to him as 'Father Christmas' - who is obviously another pre-Christian pagan deity) like the one massacred by the cat the other night, mini-stockings, mini-present boxes, chocolates, fir cones, tinsel and red ribbons. Collectively these are known here not by the appellation 'ornaments' but 'decorations'. In this way we better preserve the authenticity of our paganism as opposed to the debased deviationist version in North America.