Oh, them Baptist preachers

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ChristianCynic, Aug 3, 2002.

  1. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic
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    Speaking in generalities, what do Baptist preachers/pastors often do or say which is annoying, upsetting, or just a "turn-off?" This question is not about doctrine, but about mannerisms, cliches, emphases, and acting/reacting to people.

    For example, years ago when I worked in factories, it annoyed me that when a pastor was making announcements or referring in a sermon to conduct or witnessing while on the job, he would almost always say "At the office;" or looking at the week ahead say, "Tomorrow morning when you go to the office..." Obviously not everyone works in an office, nor does everyone work daytime hours, and I have had lot of experience with different jobs and different schedules. My idea has always been he is speaking to the church members who 'count'-- the business and professional people with higher incomes and bigger offerings. Whether intentionally or not, he is deemphasizing the importance of those who do factory or field work or menial service jobs.

    Somewhat related to the above paragraph is how they usually refer to unsaved people in the 3rd person tense. E.g., "Folks, there are thousands of lost people in our community..." Some of those lost people are very likely right there listening and hearing themselves being talked about, to spoken to. This may be one of my many pet peeves, but I think no person who is in the listening group should be talked about as if they are not there, and in churches of much size at all that is likely to the case in this instance.

    The last one I will mention-- for now-- is that most preachers are not careful enough about using superlatives and hyperbole. I know there have been several times I have heard the question posed: "What is the greatest sin that Christians commit today?" That may be a significant question, but the answers the speaker follows with are nearly always different, depending on the particular subject-- 'the sin of not praying,' 'the sin of apathy,' 'the sin of not giving (time or resources),' 'the sin of not reading one's Bible'... If the question was "the greatest, there is not much consensus about the answer, even with the same preacher who asks this question more than once, weeks apart. And then when confronting false or questionable ideas, a preacher so often tries to take on the disposition of a sore-tailed bear and says "THAT IS A LIE STRAIGHT FROM THE PIT OF HELL!!" The pit of hell is not the origin of lies, but rather the destination of the Father of Lies and those who take after him. I think greater care should be taken about mixing cause and effect, means and end, with a 'buzz word' or 'shock effect,' just to strengthen a point.
     
  2. pinoybaptist

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    Why pick on Baptists only ? Others in the so-called "neo-evangelicals" behave that way, too. [​IMG]
     
  3. ChristianCynic

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    Because this is part of the Baptist Only section and anyone allowed to post here should be familiar with the characteristics of Baptist preachers-- though, as I said at the beginning, this in generalities, so there will be exceptions. But I don't regard it as "picking on" them, unless you are also 'picking on' me; but I am above sensitivity to that, and so should they be.
     
  4. MissAbbyIFBaptist

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    Well, I usualy have a lot to say :D as ya'll so well know, but now I will be brief.{hehe, first time for everything!} This is my opinion:
    Preachers are men. Men who make mistakes and have their own faults. Men who are imperfect and need to ask forgiveness of God when they too make mistakes.
    BUT... they are God's chosen man for the job. If they are called by God, and if they are preaching God's truth, DON'T speak against them. DON'T mess with God's man.
    Remeber in numbers ch 21, the people spoke against God and God's man {Moses} and look what happened to them. Moses had his faults like any man and we see it clearly by reading about him, BUT he was God's man for the job.
    I'm not saying that it wasn't right to talk about this, but I'm simply saying my opinion and giving you something to think on.
    After all, no one is perfect and we all do things that drive people crazy. I at times have that effect on people wheither I try to or not! ;) :D And I'm sure that if these preachers do things that annoy us, or maybe isn't neceseraly the best way to do it, it wasn't intentional. But I do think we ought to respect God's man.
    IMHO, Abby [​IMG]
     
  5. ChristianCynic

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    I'm not saying that it wasn't right to talk about this, but I'm simply saying my opinion and giving you something to think on.

    That's all any of us do here. After all, opinions are like noses... everybody's got one, but some stick theirs out more than others. That circumstance has given us message boards, among other things.

    Now I will stick mine out a little more here. The idea that a pastor is "where God placed him" is another of those presumptions which many accept as true, then interpret every related datum in accordance. That would be another of those turnoffs characteristic of someBaptist preachers; the claim that it is some inerrant conclusion that "God called me here." This is a Catholic-like attempt to throw some weight around with the message that any questioning of his office or authority is an offense against God. It is much like the "Divine Right of Kings" a certain monarch named James is most noted for-- his church, his Bible, and his power cannot be questioned because that is questioning God Himself.

    But pastors do resign, sometimes under pressure, sometimes not, to go to larger churches with more responsibility and more compensation. And churches sometimes do force resignations (sometimes with cause, sometimes not) and recruit pastors more to their liking. If this "God put me here" concept were that cut and dry, there is a lot of undermining of God's arrangements on the parts of both pastors and churches.

    My theory is less supernatural. An aspiring pastor sends information about himself to churches which are seeking a pastor, he chooses an offer which seems best for the time, and when he thinks he is ready to move on-- or if the church thinks so and keeps the pressure on-- the procedure is repeated. If any church/pastor arrangement is ill-advised, that doesn't keep God from working through it, since He can do without the best of us and He can overcome the worst of us.
     
  6. MissAbbyIFBaptist

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    Yeap, I understand where you are coming from. I also noticed in your post you said " some preachers " That's right too. Some people aren't what they claim to be, and that is sad, and if they are saved, they will one day answer for it.
    But thank God there are still some preachers called by God to do His work. We need more old fashioned preachers willing to preach the truth and never compromise it.
    ~Abby
     
  7. GIG

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    Wow, I don't believe I've heard that A Pastor sends out information about himself to churches seeking a Pastor and chooses an offer.....I think we're omitting a little something called Prayer ! Prayer ! I believe it goes a little more like this ...A Pastor is unsure if he should move from his present Church or Position, so he gets on his knees and Prays, asking the Lord to show him his will and then he fasts, Prays and prays some more before sending "His Info" to a Church that has been diligently Praying and seeking god's face and asking The Lord to send them the right Man...Sounds Supernatural?? No, that's called Faith and the Power of Prayer....You know I believe that I Serve an all-knowing "SUpernatural God "
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Agree, GIG. Think that "Cynic's" evaluation is just that, cynical.

    I have bathed decisions in prayer, felt God's leading and direction, etc. That is "intangible" and hard to quantify.

    But He WANTS us to know His will and to walk in it. Not man's logic (although I like the idea of sending out salary requirements, etc) for
     
  9. go2church

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    Yes, pastors do send out information about themselves, why do think put classifieds in the back of the all the Baptist papers?

    The most annoying thing is the airplane story. You know it goes like this, "I was sitting on an airplane and someone turned to me and asked the meaning of life, so I shared the Gospel, and they got saved. Now you should feel guilty enough with that whopper to go and share the Gopel."

    What airline are riding? That has never happened to me, or anyone that I know, never.
     
  10. ChristianCynic

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    Wow, I don't believe I've heard that A Pastor sends out information about himself to churches seeking a Pastor and chooses an offer

    I have heard plenty about this, and have been involved in it. A church can easily get 100 resumes for ministerial positions.

    I think we're omitting a little something called Prayer !

    'We' are not omitting prayer on the parts of the pastoral candidate or of the church; but in the end it still works in the contact--&gt;evaluation--&gt;selection method.

    Prayer ! I believe it goes a little more like this ...A Pastor is unsure if he should move from his present Church or Position, so he gets on his knees and Prays, asking the Lord to show him his will and then he fasts, Prays and prays some more before sending "His Info" to a Church that has been diligently Praying and seeking god's face and asking The Lord to send them the right Man...Sounds Supernatural?? No, that's called Faith and the Power of Prayer

    It still includes-- as you said-- the 'natural' process sending info and making a selection, and the 'supernatural' aspect may be much, little, or none. There are plenty of mistakes made in hiring a pastor, even if both the church and the minister have done a lot of praying.

    For me, there was one in particular, in which the church had what I call the "power structure" of a few extended families who had been there for decades. But the committee had selected a fairly young man who preached evangelism every week and emphasized outreach to all parts of town. But I was very young then, and was so excited about what the church was doing, our new members and taking part in extension services, that I didn't recognize the underlying hostility between the 'power structure' and the new pastor and those of us who wanted to extend and change many things. I was shocked one Wednesday night when it all erupted and people were shouting and storming out and slamming doors behind them. And the deacons called a special meeting to oust the pastor; the next Sunday before the called meeting he announced if he didn't get 75% support he would still resign. The motion was made to not accept his resignation, and it passed, but by less than 75%; so he was gone, and so were many of us. But unquestionably there was a lot of praying, including by myself, before all this happened; yet it still happened. And I am sure this incident permanently changed my view of churches and how they operate, of pastors and how praying and 'calling' is not so simple and straightforward as I had been led to believe. In fact, this probably led to my cynical views on a lot of subjects; as well as why I never went into ministry myself even though I thought I was "called" to do so for a long period.

    You know I believe that I Serve an all-knowing "SUpernatural God "

    That's true, but something or somebody gets in the way a lot.
     
  11. GIG

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    OK I see that we really seem to be in the same page here, it's just that your original post made it sound like a business decision "only" thanks for clearing up your point of view and I agree wholeheartdly.....
     
  12. onevoice

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    Back on subject, I really hate it when a minister (and Baptists are really good at this) say "In closing" 45 minutes ahead of time. Sadly enough. . I have caught myself doing it. [​IMG]
     
  13. ChristianCynic

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    That is a point, and especially one that would annoy the 'occasional' church attender or one who lets his mind wander and has been thinking about dinner or the ballgame, or whatever he is going to do as soon as it's over.

    But most of us know preachers are naturally long-winded, as a general rule. Indeed, most people are also; that is, when they are orating about a point of importance to them. It is immature churchgoers who expect the service to have a 'deadline' for being over within 1 or 1 1/4 hours. But preachers are capable of being abusive with continual redundancies, like they are detectives interrogating a suspect and keep asking the same questions until he he 'confesses,'... meaning, of course, constant appeals and pleading until some-- or more-- respond to the invitation. Is that really how God works, by having a speaker numb or beat down someone's attention or mental stamina? I doubt it.
     
  14. onevoice

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    That is a point, and especially one that would annoy the 'occasional' church attender or one who lets his mind wander and has been thinking about dinner or the ballgame, or whatever he is going to do as soon as it's over.

    -----------------------------------------------

    I was just playing. We tend to have a joke about preachers saying that in the areas I have lived in. :)Don't get so edgy and critical. FYI . . . I am usually at my church about 9 hours each Sunday. I like actually enjoy spending the time in God's house.
     
  15. Jim1999

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    I only applied for one pastorate in my lifetime and it turned out to be an 8 month disaster. In every other situation, I was either invited by the local church, or recommended by someone.
    It seems fair to me to apply for an opening as one would any job. Certainly we pray about everything we do, including pastoral changes. I don't think we should attach some sort of mysticism to this process, else why trouble with degrees and diplomas, ordination and such?
    On preaching, I always minded the clock in morning services and finished for the noon hour. The evening services might linger a little longer. I guess the old saying applies here: "Stand up; Speak up; and Shut up!"
     
  16. peaches-ohio

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    This is off topic, but In concerning blue collar workers, I hold my self blessed that my husband provides for us with his hands. my husband is an autobody repairman, my father is a factory worker, and my grandfather was a coalminer. They all worked hard and none of us women have ever had to work outside the home. Jesus was a blue collar worker and that is good enough for me. Our pastor is respectful of all of the men, but I would feel badly if I felt left out.
     
  17. Circuitrider

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    I'm with Jim on this one. I have never sent out a resume seeking a ministry, they have always come to me. However, the reality is that many are using that means today. In my position I have many men sending me resumes and wanting contact with a church. God uses men (and women) to carry out his will. He works out his perfect will inspite of the sinful heart of man. :cool:
     
  18. DocCas

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    I have had about the same experience as Jim and Circuitrider. I have never sent out a résumé or sought after a position. The position has always sought after me. And I, like Circuitrider, learned to preach in a rescue mission! I had preached in seminary, and afterward, as a pulpit fill, etc., but every 3rd Thursday for 2 years honed my preaching skills. If you can keep 300 hungry drunks listening, you can keep anybody listening! [​IMG]

    I will soon be starting my 18th year as senior pastor here, a position I did not seek, but was approached by the pulpit committee and asked to candidate. However, in the many years I have been here I have received résumé after résumé from men seeking either a staff position with me or an open puplit somewhere in this area. Not once have I hired one of these men, or recommended one of them to an area church. Every staff person I have ever hired was either one of my church members or one of my students from either the bible college or the seminary. In my years here I have sent over 30 men out into the ministry, and most of the ones who ended up in the pastorate were sought after by pulpit committees or pastors seeking men.

    Is it wrong, in my opinion, for a man seeking a ministry to send out a résumé? No, it is not wrong, but I think the better way is by joining a good church, serving in that church, and letting your pastor know of your calling and allow him to help you find the right ministry. It has worked for me on both ends. First as an evangelist, then as a pastor, and for the men who have served under me who have gone off into other areas of service. [​IMG]
     

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