Ohio State Football Scandal

Discussion in 'Sports' started by robycop3, May 27, 2011.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
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    As the revelation came forth that some Buckeye football players had sold their Big 10 champion rings, & other paraphernalia, sometimes in exchange for big discounts on new cars, school officials investigated, said the offenders were exposed,& the matter was closed by the NCAA's handing out 5-game suspensions for Coach Tressel, and five players.

    However, twitters, tweets, and blogs keep coming out alleging much more wrongdoing by OSU athletes and coaches.

    However, one player said, "It's MY ring. I earned it with my sweat, time, and a little blood. It's MY property now; it was given to me PERMANENTLY. I should be able to sell it if I so choose."

    Jerseys and other parts of uniforms are generally school property, but very few used uniforms are ever worn again once the players who used them are finished with them. And players often have the option to purchase as many jerseys, etc. as they wish.

    Now, is there a legitimate gripe here? Or are we attempting to cling to the old notion of separation of pro and amateur sports. I personally see nothing wrong with, say, Terrelle Pryor being paid for use of a pic showing him drinking Ovaltine with the caption, "Terrelle Pryor Drinx Ovaltine". He would NOT be paid to play football; he'd be paid for drinking Ovaltine, although playing football made him a celeb.

    Many European nations have blatantly had "amateur" pros for many years. The famous Russian weight lifter Alexeev's occupation was listed as "phys. Ed. Instructor" althouth his "instruction" consisted in training himself. Same for the Russian basketball team which beat the Americans in the Olympix. They all played basketball full-time!

    I believe a total revision of the definitions for pro and amateur athletes is in order, especially allowing college athletes to endorse products for pay, and allowing them to retain an agent to handle their relationships with sponsors and potential future employers, such as pro teams in their sport.

    Meanwhile, Readers, what are YOUR thoughts on the Ohio State thingie?
     
    #1 robycop3, May 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2011
  2. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Five games for the players is one thing. For Tressel, who lied and covered up the whole thing, five games is a joke.
     
  3. robycop3

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    Well, guess we won't have Tressel to kick around any more.

    Ihttp://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-ohiost-tresselresigns


    Things have taken a BIG swing at OSU over this mess. Woody Hayes had instilled an atmosphere that the NCAA was out to "get" OSU, and the incident he used was when he was accused of giving a gratuity to a player.

    The player involved was a black med student who had not been a starter, and whose football eligibility was over. Woody saw him riding a bike across campus on a bitter-cold winter day, carrying his boox in one arm, wearing no gloves.(Woody knew he couldn't afford any.) Woody hailed him, took off his own $8 pair of gloves & gave them to the student, telling him a med student didn't need to freeze his hands.

    A "Woody-Hater" saw this & reported it to the NCAA, who cited him, but later dropped it when they learned that that young man was a senior whose college football career was over. Woody used that incident to engender a contempt for the NCAA compliance officers among OSU officials, and it apparently continued to carry over as some of Woody's former players moved into OSU's faculty and admin.

    Tressel shoulda known that if someone emailed him the info, that at least one other person knew it, and wanted TRESSEL to act on it before it went public; otherwise he wouldn'ta have sent it to tressel. I believe he shoulda shared it with his attorney, at least, and with Gee and Smith, who were obviously supportive of him It would NOT have meant the crash of the OSU prog; they have enough talented players to have moved forward.

    Again, this leads to the question of where the line should REALLY be drawn between amateur and pro in college sports? 'Twas not forever ago that a pro baseball player was ineligible for ANY college sport.(Famous example: Lou Gehrig.)

    A famous incident invilving gratuities to OSU football players involbed business icon Daniel Galbreath, an OSU alumnus. He employed several OSU football players as lifeguards at some of his private pools, paying them $500 a week, with several of them being unable to swim. (He always had legitimate trained/certified lifeguards present as well, at the same salary..) When haled before an NCAA committee, he responded, " I pay them well above the minimum wage; I pay ALL my lifeguards the same. Why can't I hire whom I wish and pay them above the minimum wage as I wish? It's MY money; why can't I spend it as I choose?" His error was explained to him, but he found ways to "gainfully" employ OSU athletes the resta his life.

    And this goes on in every "college town". I live across the creek from Huntington, WV. & many businesses employ Marshall U. athletes part-time. (I dunno how much they are paid.) This has gone on, is going on, and will continue to go on, long as the current NCAA system goes on.

    And I STILL see nothing wrong with a college athlete retaining an agent or signing with a pro team long as he/she doesn't play or receive pay from the agent or pro team during college eligibility. I believe this would keep many more college athletes in school longer.
     
  4. TomVols

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    There are lots of similarities here between what went on in Columbus and what went on with Pearl in Knoxville.

    However, as someone who has been involved with colleges and college athletics at almost all levels for years, I can tell you this: rampant rule breaking does NOT go on across the board. Not every school has players hawking wares for body ink. Not every school has coaches willingly lying to the NCAA, filing false documents, etc. Does every school run afoul of the gargantuan regulations the NCAA maintains? Yes. But to say that all schools are renegade programs is just not accurate.

    As for student-athletes working part time, this is allowed under certain circumstances. But it has to be apples to apples.
     
  5. Thousand Hills

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    As far as the OP, I don't feel sorry for any of these guys. They are getting free tuition, room, and meals. Plus national exposure and the opportunity to translate their college career into a pro career making millions. Are some of the NCAA rules ridiculous, yes, but the reality is that life is full of rules whether we like them or not. If these guys squander the tremendous opportunity they've been given, then they will have to live with it.

    As far as Tressel resigning. I wonder if Urban Meyer will take his place?
     
  6. robycop3

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    Well, I'm not saying that almost every school sets out to have top athletes, rules be dipped, but I AM saying that many businesses in college towns. owned by people who are rabid boosters of their school, don't think twice about employing athletes as part-time help, at quite-large salaries, often paid in cash so there's no records kept.

    In Huntington, Marshall U, and two large hospitals, are by far the "biggest" employers in town. Support for Marshall is huge, same as it is in Athens, OH for Ohio U, Morgantown for WVU, and Columbus for OSU. There are few people in these towns who wouldn't do some "favor" for their home school's athletes.

    Mosta the "favors" are unrecorded and untraceable, especially cash payments from wealthy people who make these payments from their own pockets, so they're untraceable. This is quite common, and it's not gonna go away soon. About the only time it gets exposed is when some airhead athlete goes on a spending spree far beyond his/her visible means. Usually, the gratuity comes with advice on how to spend it and not spend it. There's simply no way to prevent this.
     
  7. webdog

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    As a Buckeye fan, I see this as a blessing in disguise. We now are rid of Tressel's "play not to lose" approach I have been tiring on for the past few years...and can now focus on the Urban Meyer run at OSU ;)

    I see no reason why a student athlete cannot earn a living while playing and attending college. It's ridiculous to claim they are allowed to work a part time job as a commissioned salesman for a retail company where they will gain sales based on who they are that benefit a company...but cannot use who they are to make make money to benefit themselves. No reason why they cannot endorse products using their image...it's anti-American.
     
  8. TomVols

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    Web,
    I've never understood the "Play not to lose" mantra. It seems as if it's really code word for "We don't like the conservative play calling." No coach....NONE....employs a plan they don't think gives them the best chance to win (well, except for Lane Kiffin at UT vs FL in his only time on Rocky Top).

    If UT were to disappear tomorrow, I'd double my Scarlett and Gray, and I already have a fair amount. I hope Urban doesn't go to OSU. There's a reason he isn't coaching at UF now, and if you want a renegade program, he's your guy. Tressell's troubles will seem minor years from now.

    Unless they've changed the rules, pt work is fine as long as it meets guidelines.

    Roby: You won't find a more rabid fan base than in Knoxville. However, I know these guys police themselves as well as having compliance do it. Case in point: years ago a church I was part of did an annual thing where a UT athlete or two comes and gives their testimony of saving faith in Christ. It just so happened that after this service a prescheduled mission benefit meal was planned. The church had a very high donor (and me :)) and we kept the high donor separated from the athletes all day. No contact at all. They guy couldn't shake hands with them or anything. Someone recorded the donation of the players because the CO felt that if they received food for free, it would be an extra benefit. Someone at the end of the luncheon asked the players if they would like any food to take home to the dorm for themselves or other players. No can do. That would be an extra benefit in one case and questionable in the other so they just said no thank you. However, at one point one player got a cell call from another player. He asked if they would be allowed to take food home for themselves. A couple of phone calls later - since others in the church were taking food out - the two athletes were given doggy bags, but with a small amount of food. (Coach will kill us, one of them said!)

    Watching all this unfold made me appreciate all the more what these young men go through.

    Let's not confuse things. What the OSU players did was not sell memorabilia to survive. At best, they got tattoos. Worst case? A drug ring sucked them in. It's tragic.

    I know there are few amateurs anymore. But there ought to be some shred of the notion left. And by the way, before we go to paying of players, just remember: Title IX. That mucks up everything regarding pay for play.
     
  9. webdog

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    Exactly...and found within is the "play not to lose" philosophy :)

    Tressel would sit on a 7 or 10 point lead and try to ride out the clock. Many coaches do this, including Tressel.

    Meyer is out of coaching now due to "health reasons". Not sure what they are, or how serious, but if it something that can be taken care of he would be my favorite. Florida's offense and defense attacked constantly regardless of score. That is how you win championships (something he has shown he can do...Tressel won his with Cooper's guys)
     
  10. TomVols

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    Webdog wrote:

    Right. That's a plan to win. Therefore, the idea of playing "not to lose" is just code. By the way, if you're playing not to lose, and the opposite of losing is winning, aren't you playing to win? :laugh:

    Rampant word is either (1) Meyer has an anxiety disorder, and there's a lot of merit to this; (2) he has an arrythmia that is brought on by stress and anxiety. More people lean to #1, but I wouldn't discount #2. Remember: in a span of less than a year, he resigned, rescinded his resignation, then resigned again. This is not the type of guy a lot of people have faith in. Also, there is a perception that Meyer won with Zook's talent early, built on that and Tebowed his way to another title. LAT (life after Tebow) wasn't kind to Urban. Plus, there was the perception that the pack had caught him after Mullen left for Miss St. I think he's probably the best hire available when you compare him to Stoops, Pelini, but OSU should also consider Brian Kelly. He recruited Ohio well, but I don't think he'd leave Notre Dame for Ohio State. I would, but then again I'm not Catholic.
    Tressell winning with Cooper's talent? Really? You really want to go there? I mean, I have great affection for Cooper, being a fellow Knoxvillian. But no one's buying that. No one. Kids in Ohio grow up wanting to play in the Shoe. As talent rich as Ohio is, it takes little effort to field a winning program. But you have to be able to recruit Florida, South Carolina, Texas, etc., to get the speedy tough guys like you find in the SEC, etc., and Tress did that to an extent. Meyer or Stoops would do it better, some feel.

    Tressell's downfall (and this is shared by media buddies in Columbus) is that some seedy characters reappeared in the program and came to the fore when Claurett came along. Tressell, they posit, became engrossed in the culture of getting to the title game. Of course, many in the Buckeye nation were frustrated that OSU got steamrolled in two title appearances, and that Tressell could beat Michigan but couldn't keep up with the Joneses in the SEC. They overlook the fact that no one has in the title game.

    It says a great deal that Tressell will go down as the winningest coach in Buckeye history. But it also says a great deal as far as how he went out as the winningest coach.
     
  11. robycop3

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    About the amateurism thingie...I'm guessing that there are some Knoxville businesses that employ UT athletes as eye candy at a fairly high hourly rate.

    Again, Dan Galbreath set the standard for this with his OSU football-player lifeguards who couldn't even swim.(They were actually "greeters". Galbreath always had legitimate trained lifeguards at his pools.) He repeatedly questioned the NCAA as to why he couldn't employ whom he chose, and pay them what he chose, long as he met minimum wage standards, and specify what their duties were. When Wal-Mart began employing "greeters", he stepped up the intensity of his protests. he reminded the NCAA that a casino in Las Vegas employed Johnny Weissmuller as a "greeter" in the late 1970s.

    Are top college athletes a "privileged" class? Sure. But many of them are training to earn a living in pro sports, same as other students are trainiong to be scientists, teachers, business people, etc.

    The school benefits greatly when its athletic teams win. No one athlete makes more pro money nor receives the publicity that his/her school does if its team wins a national title.

    The pressure and publicity begins in high school for top athletes. however, the NACC's own stats reveal just how hard it is to "take it to the next level. In mens' basketball, only 2.9%, not quite 3 in 100 HS boy players make it to a college team. Infootball, it's about 6 in 100.(The figures are a little higher for girls' basketball, about 3.1 %.) And of those who make a college team, only 1.3 % of men hoops players make the pros, and only 1% of women do. For football, its 2% or one in fifty. Now, this is just MAKING a pro team, not becoming a regular player. This translates to three in 1000 HS boys' basketball players, two in 1000 girls' basketball players, and nine in 1000 HS football players ever making a pro team.

    And for COACHES, the percentages are somewhat thinner. For instance, the Tennessee football team might have eighty players, but only ONE head coach.

    Top athletes should be made aware of these figures so they'll have a "Plan B" if their athletic dreams aren't realized.

    Meanwhile, I see no prob with college athletes retaining an agent or signing with a pro team, long as they aren't getting paid by the agent or team. That doesn't enhance their performance one iota. After all, many HS juniors sign letters-of-intent with colleges. There IS $$ involved here; the player's tuition, etc.

    Why shoud we lag behind, when many European nations have had "paid amateurs" for many years now?
     
    #11 robycop3, Jun 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2011
  12. TomVols

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    Given the level of scrutiny right now, it would be difficult to say this does exist, yet it's impossible to say someone doesn't have a cushy part time job when you're talking about a major I-A program with numerous sports for men and women.
    This used to be part of every packet for new student-athletes.
    The line in the sand has been drawn regarding agents. I don't think that bell can be unrung.
     
  13. Tom Bryant

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    Had to wait in Wally World for a prescription so I read the Sports Illustrated article about Tressel and Ohio State. He resigned because the program was dirty and he stuck his head into the sand. He did that when he was in Division IA and he's been doing that since he got to O State.

    Too bad he was such a well known "man of faith" (whatever that means.)
     
  14. Berean

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    My biggest regret about his whole OSU scandal is that the press especially the OSU hatters seize upon this to point an accusing finger at all born again christians and say "see". I see this almost as a grandmother who would go to almost any length to protect her grandchildren even if they are wrong.
     
  15. TomVols

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    Tom, I think you're coming very close to crossing a line here. I don't think we can should malign his professed faith in Christ. What Tressell did was wrong in the eyes of the NCAA and in essentially lying, in the eyes of God. However, as someone who stands daily in the need of forgiving grace, I'm not about to jump on a man an question his devotion just because his transgressions are much more public than mine.
    Berean, I haven't seen the "See, all Christians are bad" aspect yet, but maybe I've missed it. However, while some in the press are likely gleeful over the fall of this man and this program, every program under scrutiny due to running afoul of the NCAA always cries "Persecution!" Happening at Tennessee, happening at Ohio State, and happened at USC (well, 2 of their 7 fans did).
     
  16. Tom Bryant

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    All the SI article mentioned was that he was a man of faith, had a box for prayer requests on his desk. It starts out writing about what an upstanding man of character he was then goes into the "but ...." section

    I understand what you are saying, but this was the 2nd program something like this happened. And it wasn't the first time in his time at Ohio State. Read the article. It was this article which SI gave to Ohio State the weekend before his resignation that forced his resignation.

    As someone who is acquainted with falsehood, i am not trying to jump on the bandwagon, just saying that this was the point of the article.
     
  17. TomVols

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    Fair enough. Having ties to Ohio State, I'm familiar with their run-ins with scandal. Everything changed the day Maurice Claurett came to town. I really wonder if Tress knew what he was getting. Or is he today's Tom Osborne? Get them in and try to mold them (oh, and play the heck out of them in the process). I dunno. But I do know this: Nixon was bigger than Watergate, and Tress is bigger than this scandal.
     
  18. Andy T.

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    This is true. Tressel was a good man who fell prey to the culture of corruption at OSU that puts winning above all else. This culture starts first with the demanding fans and is manifested by influential alumni, boosters, etc. OSU football is the god of Columbus, period. I've lived here 25 of my 41 years (and for the last 18 years of my adulthood), so I have first hand experience.

    And I agree - I don't think we should question Tressel's faith. Yes, he made some horrible, sinful decisions. Getting out of the OSU culture will be the best thing for his soul.
     

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