Ok, define Easter

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by FrankBetz, May 8, 2005.

  1. FrankBetz

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    Tc didn't "best" define "Easter", the Websters's Dictionary does a better job:

    Easter:
    Etymology: Middle English estre, from Old English Eastre; akin to Old High German Ostarun (plural) Easter, Old English East east
    : a feast that commemorates Christ's resurrection and is observed with variations of date due to different calendars on the first Sunday after the paschal full moon.

    Easter
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

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    Easter is the most important holiday of the Christian year, observed in March, April, or May each year to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus from the dead after his death by crucifixion (see Good Friday), which Christians believe happened at about this time of year around AD 30-33. (Easter can also refer to the season of the church year, lasting for fifty days, which follows this holiday and ends around Pentecost. See Eastertide.)

    In most languages of Christian societies, other than English and German, the holiday's name is derived from Pesach, the Hebrew name of Passover, a Jewish holiday to which the Christian Easter is intimately linked. Easter depends on Passover not only for much of its symbolic meaning but also for its position in the calendar; the Last Supper shared by Jesus and his disciples before his crucifixion is generally thought of as a Passover seder, based on the chronology in the Synoptic Gospels. The Gospel of John has a different chronology which has Christ's death at the time of the slaughter of the Passover lambs (perhaps for theological reasons). This would put the Last Supper slightly before Passover.

    The English and German names, "Easter" and "Ostern", are not etymologically related to Pesach and likely derive either from Eostremonat, an old Germanic month name, or Eostre, an alleged Germanic goddess, whom the 8th century English historian Bede stated was honored with a festival during Eostremonat. No account of Eostre has been discovered other than Bede's single mention, which has led historians to suggest that Bede's observation was conjecture. It has been suggested that many of modern Easter's symbols, such as colored eggs and the Easter Bunny, are cultural remnants of Eostre's springtime festival and that Eostre merged with the Christian Pesach celebrations after the Germanic heathens were Christianized (see Easter as a Germanic Heathen festival below.), even though giving of eggs at spring festivals was not restricted to Germanic peoples and could be found among the Persians, Romans, Jews and the Armenians.

    Seems the Bible is not given for your private interpretation and limited view of Hebrew, Greek, or English!!

    Maybe time you "Greek scholars" learn something.
     
  2. icthus

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    Another time wasting topic
     
  3. robycop3

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    I agree, Ichthus...Nothing to do with Luke's writing "pascha".
     
  4. Ransom

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    Wikipedia. Now there's a scholarly Bible help. </sarcasm>
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I can see now with this explanation of Easter that it certainly WAS NOT the best translation! Luke was not referring to some pagan German holiday which arose and then was combined with Pesach. This appears to be another case of Christians adapting to heathen customs. We would be much better off today using "Pesach" in our chruches than "Easter". Thanks for the research Frank.

    I think the very best option would have the example of transliteration the KJV committee used with baptizo. This then would have been the most accurate translation for Act 12v4 "And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Pesach to bring him forth to the people."

    [ May 09, 2005, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  6. Ransom

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    William Tyndale coined a perfectly adequate word, "Passover," for Pesach when he began the translation of his old Testament.
     
  7. TCassidy

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    That is a bad example simply because the KJV translators did not transliterate "baptidzo" into "baptize." The word "baptize" and its cognate came into English 545 years before the KJV was published, via the French "baptiste" in 1066 at the time of the Norman Conquest under William the Conqueror and had been in constant use in English for over 500 years by 1611. [​IMG]
    That is what Wycliffe did but the word failed to deliver the semantic content of the Greek into English and never caught on. Tyndale tried again and invented "passover" which did, eventually, replace "easter" in meaning "the Jewish Passover" (we even have to use the word "passover" in the definition which should prove that it is the superior word).

    I don't think there can be any honest assertion that today "passover" isn't the correct rendering of "pasXa." [​IMG]
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Of course I concede point on baptidzo - however that word originally was a transliteration from Greek - albeit through French. Note I did not say that they coined the transliteration.

    I was unaware thay Wycliffe has tried that - thanks for the info.
     
  9. robycop3

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    Clearly, Luke meant 'Passover-pesach' when he wrote "pascha" in Acts 12:4, same as he did when he wrote that word several times in his 'Gospel'.
     
  10. FrankBetz

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    Of course, but then you do argue a translation "better fit" to today's usage and verbage, but then "Passover" is seemingly "archaic" to the time in point; Easter being "better" by your estimation. But then you contradict that idealogy by your posts. Hmmm? Seems one is more confused than previously thought!

    I'm glad I am not left wanting when it comes to Christian understanding on the matter, since some think it'as a waste of time to see things from the Christian perspective these days.

    I'll stick with the time of year as understood to be Easter. I am not a Judaiser. I am not 7th Day. I am saved! I do understand that recognising the season as the Lord's Ressurrection to be God honouring than the Passover, (which is done away, ALLTOGETHER! by the Death, Burial, and Ressurrection! BTW! But then when dealing with men of corrupt minds, what else could one expect?

    Roby, you seem to be able to speak for Luke, and you're disenfranchising the Holy Spirit in the same breath, I advise you to tread very carefully.

    The KJB translators accurately gave the time of the season to the overwhelming disenfranchisement of the Passover by the Lord, Himself!

    Something you obviously haven't even considered: "Luke" was written in the aspect of Luke giving accou8nt of the Gospel/ therefore one of The Four Gospels. But the Book of Acts/ Acts of the Apostles, was during the birth of the Church from the Day of Pentecost. So? To rightly divide the Scripture; "Passover" does not fit the time of the period since the Church was already instituted. But Easter is the acuurate translation, ere since the Greek would then carry that additional meaning.
     
  11. FrankBetz

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    Ok, DEFINE EASTER

    That was the intent of the topic, which none of you even attempted to define Easter, only argued against what is most obcvious to any reader historically and to give recognition to the timing of Acts. :rolleyes: :( [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. robycop3

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    Frank Betz: I'll stick with the time of year as understood to be Easter. I am not a Judaiser. I am not 7th Day. I am saved! I do understand that recognising the season as the Lord's Ressurrection to be God honouring than the Passover, (which is done away, ALLTOGETHER! by the Death, Burial, and Ressurrection! BTW! But then when dealing with men of corrupt minds, what else could one expect?

    Frank, I try to be nice most of the time, but it's obvious that you don't know a manhole cover from a pizza in what you're talking about.

    The Passover is NOT eliminated!! God ordained it to Israel FOREVER, to commemorate His protecting them on the night His destroyer struck Egypt, and His leading Israel through the Red Sea. Don't believe me? Simply pick up your KJV and read Exodus 12.

    The Passover has nothing to do with Jesus' resurrection. He instituted COMMUNION for that, not Easter. Easter is entirely man-made.

    You say none of us defined Easter? Need my glasses? YOU defined it YOURSELF, as did C4K & TCassidy. People can render only so many definitions of any given word before any further ones are either wrong or superfluous.

    Roby, you seem to be able to speak for Luke, and you're disenfranchising the Holy Spirit in the same breath, I advise you to tread very carefully.

    Wrong, as usual, on both counts. I'm not speaking for Luke; Luke spoke for himself when he wrote pascha, both in his "Gospel", and in Acts. And if anyone's trying to disenfranchise GOD, it would be one who says the Passover(pesach, pascha) that He established FOREVER, is eliminated.


    Something you obviously haven't even considered: "Luke" was written in the aspect of Luke giving accou8nt of the Gospel/ therefore one of The Four Gospels.

    Theologians, historians, and archaeologists have established with almost complete certainty that Luke wrote his "Gospel" between 59 & 62 AD, with the Book of Acts written shortly after, to a Roman named Aristobulus. Both were written before Paul was released from house arrest in Rome, summer of 62 AD, while Claudius Caesar(Nero) was Emperor, before he began his persecutions of Christians.


    But the Book of Acts/ Acts of the Apostles, was during the birth of the Church from the Day of Pentecost.

    Both the "Gospel" and Acts were written as letters to Aristobulus. Luke didn't know these letters would become Scripture; he was merely trying to pass on some knowledge to the Roman, as Luke had actually walked with Christ and had intimate knowledge of His life.


    So? To rightly divide the Scripture; "Passover" does not fit the time of the period since the Church was already instituted. But Easter is the acuurate translation, ere since the Greek would then carry that additional meaning.

    With all due respect to you as a person, Frank, you couldn't be more wrong if you said two plus two was three.

    How can Passover not fit the time period when the events of Acts 12 took place during Passover Week????????

    How could it have been "Easter" time when IT DIDN'T YET EXIST?

    You claim to be KJVO? I've seen that many KJVOs haven't read their KJVs very thoroughly, and you give every indication of being one of them. Here, lemme help:

    Exodus 12:14, KJV-"And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever."

    Please show us, from the KJV, where God canceled that command. Did JESUS cancel it? NO! He ADDED the Communion as an observance for ALL Christians, Jew or gentile alike. The Passover remains as a memorial for ISRAEL, for when God delivered them out of Egypt with mighty miracles.

    Sorry, Frank...You're simply WRONG, all around, in this thread. BUUUZZZ!
     
  13. FrankBetz

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    Jesus fulfilled the Passover, roby, or didn't you know he came to fulfill the Law?
     
  14. FrankBetz

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    Besides, you cannot define Easter w/o mention of His Ressurrection, and in that time of year. The world knows it, I know it, you don't??? Everytime the Jews observe the Passover meal, they trod underfoot the Blood of Christ. So do you recommend that?
     
  15. FrankBetz

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  16. Scott J

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    Christ is our passover.

     
  17. robycop3

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    Frank Betz: Jesus fulfilled the Passover, roby, or didn't you know he came to fulfill the Law?

    He fulfilled the law of SACRIFICE, as well as others not pertinent to this thread. The paschal lamb is used for a special MEAL, and not a sacrifice. The person or family who either used their own lamb or bought a suitable one benefitted by their eating it, same as they would be eating any other of their lambs, while a sacrifice was used entirely by GOD and the priests. And I am fully aware Jesus is called OUR Passover. But He does NOT cancel out the observance of Passover that God ordained for Israel, FOREVER.

    Besides, you cannot define Easter w/o mention of His Ressurrection, and in that time of year. The world knows it, I know it, you don't???

    Never said otherwise.

    BUT...

    Please show us from the KJV where we are COMMANDED to observe Easter.


    Everytime the Jews observe the Passover meal, they trod underfoot the Blood of Christ. So do you recommend that?

    If I were an Israeli, I would highly recommend obeying an ordinance from GOD to all Israel that He said was FOREVER.

    Once again, Frank, you've shown an abysmal understanding of your very own fave Bible version, Frank, and definitely a lack of READING it. I even helped you, or at least TRIED to, by supplying the verse in which GOD establishes Passover for Israel FOREVER.

    Scripture tells us who actually take the time to READ it instead of GUESSING at what it says, that JESUS kept the Passover. His human lineage was Jewish, therefore Israeli, and as He obeyed all laws, thus He obeyed the Passover law. Now, please show us where He ABOLISHED(NOT added to) the Passover law. Once again, Passover has NOTHING to do with His resurrection. It is the commemoration of God's bringing Israel out of Egypt, and it was established by GOD to be observed by ALL generations of Israel FOREVER. Once again, please show us, from the KJV, where EASTER was established BY GOD. And please don't be so asinine as to say "Acts 12:4".

    And while you're at it, Frank, how about answering, from the KJV, the questions I asked you in a very recent post.
     
  18. Ransom

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    FrankBetz said:

    Of course, but then you do argue a translation "better fit" to today's usage and verbage, but then "Passover" is seemingly "archaic" to the time in point; Easter being "better" by your estimation. But then you contradict that idealogy by your posts. Hmmm? Seems one is more confused than previously thought!

    Only by your writing. It looks like English, though it's difficult to parse. I assume that whatever you are trying to say, you feel strongly about it. [​IMG]
     
  19. FrankBetz

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    Christ is our passover.

    </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, OK, you ate Him when? And what did He look like on that platter with all those bitter herbs? :rolleyes:
     
  20. FrankBetz

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    Fits all the rules of grammar, friend. Also, it fits the Spirit of the Law.
     

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