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Well that is fine....What I posted was accurate. You can call me a whatever you want, but i see you have no real desire to deal with the verses of scripture, which is what I posted to begin with.You claimed you were mis-represented...you have been asked to clarify your position .....but you just repeat what you posted earlier;

You stand by your statements....I will stand by mine:thumbs:

 

I wouldn't word it that way, but I think I know what he means, which is why I asked you to reconcile such things as the law which calls for stoning of adulterers and Jesus' treatment of the harlot caught in adultery? Would you accuse Jesus of the same thing you accused Roger Olsen for since he didn't obey the clear commands of the law?

I believe the sermon on the mt and the OT revelation CAN be reconciled, but one has to acknowledge the distinctions between law and grace first.

 

My problem with Michael Wrenn is that he will not just come out and say if he believes Jesus is the same God as is in the OT or not. It's a simple yes or no answer. That is what I'm trying to get to.

 

I read the article you linked, and he says about what you have said...the question is, what is the next step if they can't be reconciled?

-Say God ordered those killings and we can't understand why?
-Simply say they can't be reconciled and we have to stop there?
-Say God did not order those killings and the OT Israelites recorded that he did in their scriptures to defend their actions?
-some other option i haven"t thought of?

which of these are you proposing?

 

No. Is Jesus the SAME God as the OT God?????

 

He's hiding.

Most who hold false doctrine hide behind elusive, yet revealing statements. Some provide 'links' to their belief systems, allegedly and seemingly ashamed to state them openly in public.

The thing is, not one real Baptist I know holds to his beliefs.

 

I don't believe anyone here (especially Roger Olsen) is arguing that the God of the OT is different from the God of the NT, but someone would have to be blind or lack all objectivity to deny there is a CLEAR difference in the revelation about God in the two accounts. So, if the God is the same, what has changed? Could it be the REVELATION?

What we know of God is changing, not God. So, what may have appeared to be God's will in the OT (i.e. stone the adulterer) turns out not to be God's will in the NT (i.e. go and sin no more). This distinction is a perfect object lesson in the difference between law and grace.

Could it be that God wanting to first make LAW understood revealed certain aspects of his holiness and wrath without much clarity as to its full implications? Could it be that some of that revelation was misinterpreted and misapplied throughout the ages by men? Aren't Calvinists the first to point out the 'anthropomorphic' language of the OT when it speaks of God relenting and changing his mind? So, why are they so keen on insisting revelations regarding his wrath in regard to the law must be so literally applied? Why not allow the revelation of the authoritative WORD (Christ) help us understand the less clear revelation of the OT texts?

 

Atheists often point to the God ordained slaughter of the innocents in the OT and then Jesus saying Let the little children come to me. Some use dispensationalism to explain the different ways God deals with mankind. Actually, usually when reading the prophets I have visions of an apocalyptic ending to America for her sinfulness and rebellion. If judgment comes it certainly won't be limited to adults in nature and scope. Nevertheless, there is a difficulty here, and to deny such or pretend it doesn't exist isn't very helpful.

 

Jesus as God and law giver could have stoned the woman to death.
That he choose to have mercy on her and forgive her sins is His perogative.

Roger Olsen clearly posted a bogus article, and I would suggest it is you with the wrong lens on it.....with your zeal for all things anti -cal.
let me list for you again from the article:

The God of calvinism is the biblical God. So mr.Olsen then is saying that he believes this God is.....is a moral monster

If you deny the God of calvinism is the biblical God, then your previous post is a contradiction. because Olsen[and anyone else who is hyper sensitive ]does not understand the teaching correctly...he makes his unfounded claims.

Predestination is used by God to explain how he has ordained to sanctify the Elect,conforming them to the Image of The Son...his careless mis-use of the teaching, like several here on Bb do...is without scriptural warrant.

Alleged Divine commands???? sounds like :
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

This is saying we do not have the word of God! we need olsen and others like him to question God's word????

We do not see Jesus or any of the apostles casting doubt on the scripture..they just quote it and believe it.

When the holy scripture{ not so called texts of terror} when they say thus saith the Lord who is olsen to tell us it was not God's will...equally or otherwise.

God says all scripture is God breathed....not presumably written
. tell me how this constant denial of the scriptures as God's word..are in any way christian?????

It is excessive hubris for any to put themselves over God's word.It is an outright denial of scripture.....The fact of the importance of the blood of the passover is put into doubt if the firstborn were not destroyed .When i see the blood I will passover you means nothing if the firstborn were not killed being uncovered. Christ our passover is sacrificed for us 1Cor 5:7 is based on this account ,,,that he is so eager to doubt.

All false teachers call it libel...when they are caught in their ungodly errors.
We do not relativize anything..as he would has has do.

Another clear and blatant denial of God's authoritative word.

No thanks....you can believe what you want...but when someone denies the word over and over... that is a heretic and to be avoided.

 

WOW! I assure you Roger Olson is no heretic. I have read much of his work and although I do not agree with everything he says. He fully believes in the Scriptures as much as anyone here although I do have to say, his article should have been better written. I can see how anyone not otherwise familiar with his work might see him as denying some Scripture he should have re-read this article before he posted it.

 

He's trippin'.

He's been asked numerous times about the Deity of Christ, being ever elusive, and just now answers.

Hmmmmmmm. Interesting.

Then he turns 'hiding' into a line that since he uses using his real name as his user ID as proof he isn't hiding, and that if it is not used, one is? LOL. Yes, everyone who doesn't use their real name as a user ID on the BB is hiding. :laugh:

Son, you've missed the point by miles.

The fact that it was like pulling teeth to get you to answer on the Deity of Christ is quite telltale. :wavey: I've never witnessed ANY real Baptist struggle to give a direct affirmative answer to that question. Your last 'answer' looks to be more hiding and out of pure reluctance. :thumbsup:

 

Hello HoS,

Welcome to BB.
I have never heard of this person...olsen.....based on what I quoted directly from his article...do you see anything in those quotes that you think is Correct??/
Either I am completely mis-reading his article...or he is out to lunch....big time:thumbs:

 

Olsen also embraces Open Theism as valid. There is an article on his own blog where he defends it. It's not hard to see why, as arminian theologys logical end would go that route.

He's out there. No need to wonder why, with one who endorses him here, wonder no longer.