I like good thought provoking thought so I'll bring up an on going debate I'm having with Catholic family members. The Eucharist. We've had arguments over the scriptures and transubstantiation. The arguments go something like this. "What do you think Jesus meant when he said "is" in: Lk 22:19 My typical reply is emphasis on rememberance which isn't a strong argument. A stronger one is Jesus also said he "is" the vine but Catholics don't go around looking at vines as Jesus. Then the next statement is what about Jn 6:51-53;60-61;66-67 I usually respond by quoting Jhn6:63 we discuss a multitude of other verses. Baring in mind that we can have endless debates over what scripture said I read the early church fathers and came accross these: Ignatius AD 98-117(Epistle to the Smyrneaens) Clement Date uncertain(Epistle to the Corinthians) And Justin Martyr actually spells it out indicating that by consecrating prayer over the Eucharist that it becomes the body and blood. These are the earliest writings of Christianity apart from the NT. What are the responses to these?