on not being multipersonality church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. nodak

    nodak
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    A church in our area is re- evaluating everything they do to make sure they are doing what they should. Hope that makes sense.

    So far here is one area they are rethinking. I said I could get some "outsider" points of view for them, so here is your chance.

    This church has slowly transitioned theologically from classic free grace dispensationalism to reformed Baptist. I won't say Calvinist because even Calvin might not agree with some of today's Calvinism. Some of the church is like MacArthur, still holding to dispy end times beliefs and some do not. Some are Lordship Salvation and some are not.

    They aren't asking input on their theology.

    But here is the current topic to evaluate: they ask if their music is aligned with reformed theology and practice. Some are expressing the feeling that the musical part of the service is pure Pentecostal/Finney. That is to say, it is designed to evoke a specific emotional response. Or it is supposed to bring the congregation into a time of worship or into the presence of God. Some are asking if that tracks with reformed theology. Aren't those the job of the Holy Spirit? Can they accomplish that anyway as humans?

    They use CCLI, and they tell me that means they usually use songs from whatever the CCM top 20 list is that week. They are starting to question the theology of some of the songs, the purpose of those songs, etc.

    And asking if their music needs to make as radical a change as their theology has.

    Please don't debate their theology, whether you agree or disagree with it. Not looking for a Calvinist/Arminian debate. Are looking for a reformed perspective on how a Baptist church service should be done.

    Thanks for any help!
     
    #1 nodak, Dec 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2014
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    How is it that you see those being opposed to one another?
     
  3. annsni

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    Using CCLI doesn't mean they are using the current top 20 because most every song is covered by CCLI nowadays - even older hymns.

    Really, I think it is GOOD to go back over the songs that we sing at church and see if they are theologically sound and if they are doing what they are to be doing. But then you need to evaluate just why we are singing songs in church and what the purpose is. ;)

    But there are incredible modern songs that beats the pants off of old stuff (thinking of the Getty's right now - and we just got last minute tickets to see them at Carnegie Hall tonight!!!!) and some of it just makes me do this: :BangHead: So what they are doing is good but they need to make sure they evaluate what they sing for the song itself and not for the genre or time period it's associated with.
     
  4. T Alan

    T Alan
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    Well, My opinion is that the consensus of responders on BB will be that the Church should change it's name to Legalism Honoring Baptist Church and kill themselves.
     
  5. T Alan

    T Alan
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    :BangHead: I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,
    I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,:BangHead:I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,
    I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,
    I will not say it,:BangHead: I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,
    I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,
    I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it, I will not say it,:BangHead:
     
  6. InTheLight

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    Working on your post count again?
     
  7. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    It is good that they're re-thinking their music in view of their theology. Music ought to be the servant to theology. Music ought to direct us to God.

    One of the things that David did in 1 Chronicles was to appoint priests who would help the people to worship. And whatever forms that took, they were much more than likely to be correct theologically because it was the priests doing it.

    The church ought to use music that will reflect their theology, but there is plenty of music, both new and old, that reflects that.

    My advice that is worth less than .02 is that they ought to study 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul talks about the church at Corinth worshipping. There ought to be preaching (prophesying), people ought to come prepared to worship (14:26), ut they need to understand that sometimes people come to worship who don't understand what is going on (14:23).
     
  8. nodak

    nodak
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    RevMitchell's question is a good one, and thanks Annsni, maybe their volunteer song leader is less in the know than he thinks he is? :)

    I think, if I understand, that their philosophy of worship has changed. It is now "Our job is to present the whole gospel, and the elect will respond positively."

    I think, if I understand, that their old philosophy of worship was a blend of "It is our job to sell the gospel. So we are free to use any sales techniques that work, including mood music, mood lighting, sex appeal, indeed anything that would sell you a truck or a smartphone" AND "It is our job to bring you to a state of emotional intimacy with God. You may not know Him, or know anything about Him, but you will at least enjoy and come back if you get to enjoy that emotional intimacy with Him. So prepare to be seduced."

    And yes, when they say "contemporary worship" they are including the music. That doesn't mean that is all that is involved, or that all new songs are evil. It is a big part of the "style of worship" package. So is the sermon, but that has already been changed. Changes are afoot in their physical plant also due to the change in worship philosophy.

    So please, as you reply, don't get hung up on how long ago the song was written. A hymn is a hymn is a hymn be it 4 centuries or 2 minutes old. Ditto a gospel song, or a love song.

    Thanks again!
     
  9. JonC

    JonC
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    Colossians 3:16
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.


    Is worship time a time to express our individual experience or is it at time to be transformed by God. I think that Rev is right, that it is both. But I think that we often emphasize our experience over God transforming our lives (I think that Colossians 3:16 is sometimes missing in our contemporary music).
     
  10. T Alan

    T Alan
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    If so I woulda made separate replies for each one. :)
     
  11. T Alan

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    :applause:Standing of Course!
     
  12. nodak

    nodak
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    Ok, now we seem to be on the same page. They have stopped the cheerleader-pep rally encouragements from the song leader, and the mushy "I want every eye closed as we sing this next song to Jesus" stuff. Not that they object to lively emotion, just trying to let it happen naturally rather than it being so contrived.

    Are there other things you may see done in worship not appropriate for a reformed Baptist church?

    Are there specific songs you would cut from the list? They do contemporary, hymns, gospel songs, and southern gospel.
     

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