On the matter of Sunday being the first day of the week....

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by pinoybaptist, Jan 31, 2003.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Hello, brethren...
    I don't know if this topic had had a thread before
    and I'm pretty sure this is something that is not given much thought so I'm sure the answers will be pretty short but I'd appreciate them anyway.
    Is our practice of meeting on a Sunday really Biblical ? I mean, was the first day of the week in the New Testament a day they called Sunday at that time ?
    Why shouldn't it be a Tuesday, or a Friday.
     
  2. Ben W

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    Gee Im glad that I the Seventh Day Baptist got this one first :D

    The Early Church met most if not all of the days of the Week. They certainley met on the Jewish Sabbath. Acts 13:42 "So when the Jews went out of the Synagogue the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath". So we see clearly that at this stage in History Saturday Sabbath Meeting was happening.

    The Early Church is recorded as meeting on a Saturday, Interestingly enough the same is found of the Celtic Church and the Essene Christian Community, until both were toppled by Catholiscm.

    Colossians 2:16 states "Let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths". People often like to say that the Sabbath Keeping churches are guilty of this judging, of which some certainley are. However a number of Sunday Keeping churches are tarred with the same brush. The Catholic church Invented the Sunday Sabbath at the council of Nicea when Christianity became the state religion of the empire. Sun-day was the day kept by the pagan sunworshippers, just like the christianisation of easter Sunday was made the day of worship. The Vatican openly state that the Pope made the change. Being the very oracle of God He supposedly had the right to do this. This is exactly where the idea of Sunday Sabbath Keeping comes from.

    Originally the church was a Messianic Jewish fellowship that met on the Saturday Sabbath. As we know the gentiles were grafted in. Revelation 14:10 notes that "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those that keep the commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus".

    So the Fourth commandment is to remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy, So we must keep a Sabbath today. I choose to keep the Saturday Sabbath, On a basis that I want to be in a church that is passionate about being like the early church, and is not afraid to come out of catholiscm fully.

    Have a look at the website for the Seventh Day Baptist Church, they have many interesting articles and ideas.

    http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    Thank you for replying. But the same question is begged by your answer. Was the seventh day sabbath actually a Saturday as we know it in our calendar ? Why shouldn't the seventh day be a Wednesday during the old and the new testament times.
     
  4. Ben W

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    The Sabbath was given by God in Genesis 2:3. The Seventh day, throughout at least three different calenders was kept. It would not be unreasonable to assume that scince God said observe this day, that that day was observed in a seven day cycle which happened to be on the Saturday.

    The Jews have kept the Sabbath for at least if not well more than 4000 years. It would be reasonable to think that this continuity went on from the time the sabbath was known of.

    God said keep the Sabbath and that is what the Jews have done, well into the time of the Roman calender. I suppose you could say that it is kept on a historical basis.
     
  5. Caretaker

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    1. Creation was completed in six days.
    2. God rested on the seventh day.
    3. God blessed the seventh day.
    4. God sanctified the seventh day.
    5. The reason God sanctified the seventh day was because He rested on it.
    6. The seventh-day account does not have the formula "and there was evening and there was morning, a seventh day" as do the six days of creation.
    7. There is no mention of the word "Sabbath" in the book of Genesis.
    8. There is no command for mankind to rest in the Genesis account.
    9. Nothing is expressly mentioned regarding man in the seventh-day-creation rest.
    10. The seventh-day "rest" of God was most likely characterized by His delight in His new creations and in open fellowship with Adam and Eve in the sin-free, perfect environment of Eden.
    11. The conditions which characterized the "rest" of God would probably have continued had it not been for man's sin.
    12. The seventh day of Gen 2:2,3 may have been a regular day as were the first six days of creation, or it may have been an indefinite period of time.
    13. The Genesis account does not mention an end to God's seventh-day rest. It is presented as an ongoing state by the omission of "and there was evening and there was morning, a seventh day". The fact that the Genesis account is so carefully constructed indicates that this omission was not accidental.
    14. When man sinned, he was excluded from God's REST and God began His WORK of redemption to restore man back to himself.


    What is this new "WORK" which God started immediately after Adam and Eve sinned? We read that "The Lord God MADE garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them" (Gen 3:21). This event was the beginning of a "WORK" which would continue throughout the centuries until it's significance would become fully revealed in the death of Christ. The death of that first lamb, while not mentioned as such in the Genesis account, was the acorn of the great truth which, through the following centuries, would grow into the great, spreading oak of righteousness by faith. It pointed forward to Christ's substitutionary life and death for lost mankind. Naked Adam and Eve were clothed with robes made from the skin of the lamb - a substitute who gave his life. Millennia later Paul would put this same truth in these words:

    He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

    All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:27
    The work of redemption was the work which God started when man sinned and was driven from Eden's rest. This work would continue until man was restored to God's true rest. Jesus is our Sabbath rest, not some 24-hour period of time

    Romans 14
    1
    Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    2
    For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    3
    Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    4
    Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    5
    One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    6
    He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
    7
    For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
    8
    For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.


    Galations 3:

    23
    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24
    Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25
    But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26
    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29
    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


    For me Jesus is my Sabbath, 24/7, not a specific day on the calender. Those who worship our Lord on the Jewish Sabbath day, fantastic. Those who worship our precious Lord on the day of His resurrection, fantastic. Those who worship our awesome God in the midweek gathering, fantastic. For I also worship my Lord and my God at each of those times and every time in between.

    Jesus is my sabbath, my Lord my God, the author and finisher of my salvation. All glory, all honor, all praise to the Lamb of God and the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Here is an argument from Paul about ABANDONING the Jewish rituals (including sabbath keeping btw)
    Makes sense to me. While I love my Jewish roots and heritage, none of it means diddly-squat (Hebrew: stinkingmanure) to a Christian.

    Including the legalistic sabbath keeping.

    Dr. Bob
    "The Law made lousy Jews and evey worse Christians"
     
  7. Ben W

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    Unfortunatley Dr Bob, alot of the Legalistic Sabbath Keeping is going on in churches that meet on a Sunday.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Boy, you said a mouthful there, Ben. I come from an ifb tradition that is heavy on "legalism=good christian" mentality. :mad:
     
  9. DeafPosttrib

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    The problem is....

    The Bible does not show clearly on the timing of Christ's death.

    Most believe Christ died on Friday. Some believe on Wednesday, even rarely believe on Thursday.

    Which is correct?

    I strong believe Christ died during Passover day, the day before Sabbath come.

    He died 3 hours before sabbath arrived at around 3 pm(ninth hour).

    Seventh Day Adventists believe sabbath is Saturday.

    Christians attend church on Sundays, because Christ risen on the first day of the week.

    The problem is....

    The Bible does not saying sabbath is on Saturday. Also, it does not saying Christ risen on Sunday either.

    I believe the timing of Christ's death and risen is lost forever. Thank to Paganism. Catholic used Pagainsm to practice the calendar.

    I am not saying that I am against Bible. I support Bible 100% completed.

    The problem is.... The Bible does not record on the which day as named of seven names of seven days.

    We use present's calendar. It comes from Roman. We do not use Jewish calendar.

    In America, it used calnedar come from Roman.

    Ancient Rome was invlove pagan so heavily.

    Easter and Christmas come from pagan. Sorry to saying it.

    When you read scriptures on Christ's resurrection. Notice it says, "first day of the week." Notice, day is italic. It was not from Greek Translation. English translators just added 'day' in the verse.

    So, my point is, the Bible does not saying, Christ was risen on "Sunday". Even, it does not saying, sabbath is "Saturday" either.

    All of these names of the seven days come from pagan.

    'Sunday' means sun. 'Saturday' means Saturn.

    I went to Rome, Italy 2 years ago. I looked at many old remain damaged of buildings near Colossuem. I saw three tall giant columns still standing in the air right now. I looked at the information of that building. It tells me, that building was Saturn Temple. Obivously, Romans were doing worshipping idol as pagan.

    Even, when apostle Paul and Barbanas was in Athen, Greece. They went to Paul and Barabanas, they bow down and worshipped them. They called Paul, 'Mecury'. Also, they called Barbanas, 'Jupiter'. Paul was so angry at them, he rebuked them for worshipped on him.

    Obivously, Greece and Italy both were invlove with pagan so heavily.

    So, therefore Roman Catholics use pagan to practice it.

    Do Catholics still practice on pagan today? Yes.

    My point is, is it wrong form Christians go to the church to have service on Saturday? No. It is not sin. Because the Bible is not clear on the specific timing of sabbath. So, I do not criticize or against them. I just respect them well.

    Is it wrong for Christians go to the church to have service on Sunday? No. It is not sin. Because the Bible is not clear on the specific timing of resurrection. I am not criticize or against them. I just respect them well.

    I let you know, I am still faithful attend to church on Sundays.

    What if suppose I go to another church which have service on Saturday, should I attend there? Yes. It is not sin. The Bible does not saying the timing of sabbath or resurrection either.

    BUt, the fact of sabbath. What is sabbath? Sabbath means rest. Who is the Sabbath? Jesus Christ!

    Without have Jesus, we have NO rest, means heavy burden to carry it(sins). When we have Christ, we already have rest in Him!! Because, He already paid all our sins away. He is our rest.

    Sabbath is not Saturday or Sunday either. Sabbath is Jesus!

    Another question.... Is it wrong for Christians go to the church to have service on Monday???

    If you disagree. Then please show me where in the Bible, if it is wrong to have service on Monday?

    No, the Bible does not saying the timing of sabbath, and resurrection.

    So, therefore, we CAN worship the Lord anytime during week!

    More important is worshipping the Lord than laws, practically, etc..

    You have relationship with the Lord for 24 hours daily all the time till you die. UNderstand, Christ IS the sabbath!

    Should I criticize against Seventh Day Adventistts for attend church on Saturday? NO! I respect them well.

    I let you know, there are very few churches are doing serivce on Saturday. It is 'Seventh Day Baptist Church'. It is very rare in America.

    Do I against them? No. I respect them!

    Same thing as I respect Christians attend church on Sunday.

    The most important basic of the doctrine, that we believe: Christ came to earth as virgin birth. Christ died on the cross for our sins- salvation. Christ rosen from the death. Jesus is coming again!

    This is fundamental doctrine. Late Dr. Curtis Hutson said on it. I agree with him.

    So, my point is, please do not criticize against each other about Sunday or Saturday. It does not matter. The matter is, more important for Christians to have relationship with the Lord.

    I hope that you understand what I am talking about on sabbath.

    Have a nice day! [​IMG]

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  10. dwd

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    After reading the answers to question as to the sabbath and sunday,I fee lthat it has been answered.
    I like DR. Bob was raised in IFB and found that most of them to be very legalistic. I find that since I have read the Bible and did a lot of study and prayer that there is a freedom that comes from knowing scripture. I still worship on Sunday but I work a swingshift and find myself on the Job on some Sundays. That is when I am glad that God does not judge me for not keeping the Sabbath or misssing a Sunday. I go because I want to be with God people and sing the songs of Zion

    Have A Good Day
    DWD
     
  11. Bob Farnaby

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    Hmmmm .. now thw calendar I have next to the phone starts on Mondays ... So does that make me a Seventh Day Baptist, and Ben a Sixth Day Baptist? :D

    Regards
    Bob
     
  12. Artimaeus

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    The question shouldn't be, "Is it right or wrong to worship on Saturday or Sunday?" It is never wrong to worship, any day and every day. Should we keep the Sabbath?, No. Saturday is the Sabbath, Saturday is the seventh day of the week. Jesus kept the Sabbath and didn't correct anyone who thought that they had lost track of which day was the seventh day. We have had different calendars and there have been changes made in them, but, the seven day week has been consistent. It doesn't matter what name you give to the seventh day it is still the seventh day. That reminds me of multi-story hotels and their superstition about a 13th floor. They will have the 12th floor and then the 14th floor, but that doesn't make any difference, the floor after the 12th is still the 13th regardless of what they call it.

    DeafPosttrib, you make some very valid points about Christ being the Sabbath, and it doesn't matter what day we worship on. I do have a question, though. Why would you respect the false doctrine of the Seventh Day Adventists? Most of your post is saying that you believe keeping the Sabbath is wrong and you don't even know what day it is anyway, so why do you respect someone who insists that not only do they know what day it is but that that is the day to worship? I do not judge anyone because of the day they choose to worship, not even Seventh Day Adventists. I do judge, however, the doctrine that falsely teaches that we must keep the Sabbath.
     
  13. Johnv

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    I'm not too concerned with what day we honor the sabbath (since we don't actually know if what we call the first day of the week really was the first day of the week). What's important is that we take one day in seven to rest, in homage to the Lord. It's not about "old covenant: vs :new covenant". It's about God designing the body to require rest, and us thinking we know better.

    I think we spend too much time worshipping only one 1 day (we should be doing that every day), and not resting on any day (we should be resting at least once a week).
     
  14. Charlotte Marcel

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    I agree. We do need to take a day of rest in every week. In some religions that would include anything that could be considered working, like cooking, cleaning and driving. I try not to clean, but I still cook and drive. It is good for our mental and physical health to take a break.

    I have always gone to church on Sunday. Because that is when my church had service. Not because of any other reason. But I have seen that many churches who had services on Sundays are also offering Saturday services. Interesting.
     
  15. JIMNSC

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    “The Sabbath was binding in Eden and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word ‘Remember,’ showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still valid?” Dwight L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48

    “There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath was not Sunday. It will, however, be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions..... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not! There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.” - Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, Baptist Theologian

    NJMO
     
  16. Tim

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    So are we still under the law and thus obliged to keep the Sabbath? Then aren't we debtors to keep the whole law? Where does it end? How about bringing sacrifices, etc., etc.? Oh, that's right, the "ceremonial law" was abrogated. But I don't see where the law is divided up into ceremonial, moral and civil parts in Scripture, just in theology textbooks.
    I prefer to acknowledge that Christ fulfilled all the law thus initiating a Sabbath rest that all who are in Christ enjoy today. Heb. 4:1-11.
     
  17. Johnv

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    So are we still under the law and thus obliged to keep the Sabbath?

    It ain't just an OT law, it's a Commandment.

    Are we obliged to keep it?

    Let's see, it says we should worship the Lord on the Sabbath. In the NT, we're to worshipthe Lord every day. So in that respect, yes, we must keep it, and additionally, extend it to worshipping the Lord every day.

    The second part, oh yeah, to rest. IT sayd to rest on the one day out of the seven. Seeing as how God designed my body to require rest at least once a week, that makes a lot of sense. What does the NT say? Well, it says that my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. So in that respect too, we are to keep the commandment.

    In short, yes, we must keep not only this but all Ten Commandments. Otherwise, we should simply start referring to them as the ten suggestions.
     
  18. Tim

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    The ten commandments were Israel's law -the core of the Old Covenant. The Church is under a greater law, the law of Christ-a New Covenant. The O.T. Sabbath rest was a figure that Christ fulfilled when he initiated the true Sabbath in which we cease from the works of the O.T. law and find our rest in the finished work of Christ.
    2 Cor. 3:6-11
     

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