Once Saved Always Saved part2

Excellent verse for self-examination.

Here is a good commentary on this verse...

"Every man that hath this hope. The hope (Gr elpis) is not a "hope so" chance for the Christian , but a "know so" expectation which is part of the "knowledge" we have because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is because of this "sure expectation" that we "purify" our lives. But the implications here for the false teachers are they do not purify their lives because they do not have the hope; they do not have the hope because they do not have the Holy Spirit; they do not have the Holy Spirit because they are not children of God, which is obvious because they do not live righteous lives."

Benjamin C. Chapman, Ph.D. (from the King James Bible Commentary)

:jesus:

 

How about the Biblical teaching of all believers will persevere because their salvation is held in the hand of Christ. Salvation is of the Lord, not of man.

Please take a warning here. Never, ever apply this passage (1John 4:1-4) to other believers on this board. It is questioning their salvation, a personal attack, and therefore against the rules. You are taking the passage out of context. The passage, if you read it, is speaking of false teachers, and even those that are demon-possessed. There is only one Holy Spirit that indwells a believer. To accuse a believer of other spirits indwelling them is to accuse them of being demon-possessed. That is what you are inferring when you say "Test the spirits." What other spirits are there besides but demonic spirits? Why are you inferring on this board that other believers are demon-possessed false teachers?

Remember you must apply this to yourself. Is it possible that you are a demon-possessed false teacher? If you don't think so, then why would you think others would be.

Nowhere does the Bible say we must be sinless. If I accuse you of lying, cheating, coveting, in fact breaking every one of the ten commandments since you have been saved, I doubt that I would be wrong. Therefore your love for God is not always seen for God. Have you never lost your temper or been angry at your brother, which Jesus calls murder, for example? Thus your example is flawed, if you think that the testimony of loving and obeying Christ must be done 100% of the time from the time one is saved to the time one dies without exception. And if one dies suddenly without having repented of a sin he would not go to heaven. If those are your beliefs, they are flawed.
Christ forgave all my sins at the time of my salvation: past, present and future. And yes, I live as if he did. For he changed me at that time. His Spirit lives within. I live that way, because he has been changing me ever since, and is not done with me yet. But, yes, I still sin, as does every believer.

Who said anything about the "persistent act of willful disobedience to known commandments of God." I didn't. Are you just now beginning to define terms. And what do you define as "the commandments of God"? Perhaps your definition is different than mine.

You are taking Scripture out of context. You have referred to a verse in Romans 14 which has nothing to do with salvation. There is only one Spirit that dwells in me, and that Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and he will never condemn me to Hell.

You are taking Scripture out of context. If you fear you have demons dwelling in you, you have a great problem. I don't. The Holy Spirit dwells in me. There are no spirits to test.

More Scripture taken out of context. The verse at the end of Romans 14 is not speaking of salvation. It is speaking of the conscious. And again, there is only one Spirit that dwells in me--the Holy Spirit. If you have another spirit in you that you can test, you have a problem--demonic possession and are not saved. You need to take care of that.

Back that up with Scripture. The Holy Spirit bears with my spirit that I am a child of God. Does He do the same with you? It is not my conscience! It is the Holy Spirit, and Him alone.

Study Romans 14. You are way of base. Look at the first couple of verses for example. Do you think that a vegetarian is unsaved because he eats vegetables and not meats? If he eats meat his conscience would "condemn" him. According to you he would go to hell for eating meat. This is what Paul is speaking about. Do you really believe a person will go to hell for eating meat??

For eating meat? "Thou art beside thyself!"

And all because of a conviction that they ought to eat vegetables instead of meat. You really haven't studied Romans 14 have you?

I am beyond deception. I will never become a false teacher. I will always hold the truth in Christ that He is my Saviour and Lord, that Christ is the Second person of the triune Godhead, that he is perfect humanity and perfect deity at the same time; that he died for my sins, took the penalty of eternal death upon himself, a penalty that I deserved, that believing in him I might have eternal life. I am not deceived. I never will be. I stand on the Word of God. Christ is my Saviour. The Holy Spirit bears witness to my spirit that I am his child. I cannot be deceived of this fact, and I never have for the last thirty some years.

My faith is a "perfect faith" in that it is not blind. It is based on fact--the fact that Jesus Christ died for my sins, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. (1Cor.15:1-4). Faith is not blind. Faith is based on fact, intelligent fact.

 

If you have the possibility of deception, then how do you know you will stand before him and hear those words? How do you know that you will not hear: "Depart from me into everlasting fire for I never knew you"?

You keep inferring that you will not be of that faithful remnant by referring us to 2Cor.13:5.
Remember you said that you would gladly apply everything that you had written to yourself. See the verse below

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
--Perhaps you are that reprobate, and not of that faithful remnant? How do you know for sure?

Again you take Scripture out of context by quoting James. James is teaching that the result of being saved is works. He isn't teaching works is part of salvation. You have taken Scripture out of context.
Concerning our conscience, I agree with Paul who said:

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
--That is what Paul did, and that is what I do. That is what God expects. He expects nothing more.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
--There are no conditions to salvation. It is unconditional as Phil.1:6 teaches. Christ performs the work of salvation. He keeps that salvation right until the day of Jesus Christ. There is nothing I can do to take it out of his hand. It is forever in his hand. Salvation is all of Christ. It is not of man. It is unconditional.

It is this last verse that is the most important.
We know that he abides in us by the Spirit which he has given us. I know that He has given me His Spirit. I know that I am His child. Do you? I know that the eternal life He has given to me shall never be taken away. It is a gift that will never be rescinded.

 

Hey folks! It's me again....sorry I've been away for so long, but I have not forsaken you!

I've just been extensively busy with various activities regarding business and planning, so I have not had a chance to respond.

Stay tuned, however, I will be responding as soon as possible!

God bless,

Lys

 

(The bolding is mine). Note the doubt that you express. You have no assurance of your salvation. You could go to hell today. Only at the end of your life, you say, do you know for sure if you will enter heaven. Muslims also believe the same.
But here is what the Bible says:

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--The Bible does not use such words as: hope, guess, or "possible," (the word you used). It uses the word "know," meaning having absolute knowledge. I have absolute knowledge that I will go to heaven when I die, even if I die with unconfessed sin. There is no such thing as a perfect saint. As imperfect as we are if I were to die suddenly before I made things right with God and man, I would still go to heaven.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus--NONE!

False. One can know for sure based on the sure promises of Jesus Christ who never lies. It is Christ that keeps our salvation; not man. Salvation is not of works. Why do you keep on inferring that salvation is by works?

Many times you have indicated doubt.
Look at your first paragraph.
"Then and only then will I have 100% knowledge." That is not assurance; it is doubt.
You said you have "the real possibility of deception," or being deceived about your own salvation. There is no assurance of your salvation here, only doubt that you will not be of the faithful remnant.

That is not true is it.
The question is based on 2Cor.13:5. How do you know that you are not a reprobate?
I know I am not a reprobate because I have believed on the sacrificial work of Christ and he saved me. I do not continually need to examine myself to have that knowledge. I believed. And when I believed he forgave all my sins: past, present and future. There is no need to keep examining myself concerning my salvation. You have taken that verse out of its context.

Concerning my salvation, my conscience is clear because I have trusted Christ as my Saviour. I know that I have eternal life, not because of what I do, but rather because of what Christ has done.

Why do you continue to take Scripture out of context?
The only Spirit that dwells within me is the Holy Spirit. And this is what he testifies:

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
--He testifies that I am His child.
There are no other spirits to test. There are no demonic spirits dwelling in me. To make such an accusation is abhorrent. I warned you not to make those accusations. If you keep doing this administrative action may be necessary.

Applying what you have said to your own self, you must believe the real possibility that demonic spirits dwell in you and not the Holy Spirit. Is that really true. If so you should not be on this board. It is for Christians only.

Yes, you have taken Scripture out of context, again!
The theme of James is practical Christian living; not salvation. James is not writing about salvation. If you want to know about the relation of works to salvation then read Romans chapter four. The Bible does not contradict itself. But you make it contradict itself. You present a salvation of works. There is no Scripture that advocates that salvation is a process. That is unscriptural. There is no such thing as being born again and again and again.

There is no Scripture that says salvation is conditional. It is unconditional as all Scripture attests. To say that it is conditional you have to twist Scripture, take it out of context, stomp on it, bend it, crush it, smatter it, butcher it, slice it up, dice it up, cut it up, and in the end throw it out.

And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

No, that salvation is unconditional. That assurance is from God himself, whose grace is sufficient for me, each day, every day. It is not about works. It is about a relationship with Jesus Christ. And that relationship began the day I trusted in Him as my Saviour; the same day he gave me unconditional salvation, unconditional forgiveness of sins (past, present, and future), and unconditional eternal life, all because of his unconditional love for me.

 

How quick you are to quote me out of context!!

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

To make it more more clear for you, I will reiterate what I have said:

"The Bible does not use such words as: hope, guess, or "possible," (the word you used). in 1John 5:13, rather it uses the word "know," meaning absolute knowledge.
I know, for absolutely sure that I am going to heaven if I should die this night even if I have unconfessed sin in my life.
I know Jesus has given me eternal life. You do not; you have, by your admission, no assurance.

 

Go through your own posts.
Everytime you use 2Cor.13:5
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If applied to yourself:
1. You must examine yourself to see whether you are saved or not, therefore you are not sure that you are saved. Correct? You have no assurance.
2. Prove your own self. Prove, demonstrate, test, that you are indeed saved. How do you know? According to your interpretation you have no definite assurance. You have to continually examine yourself and prove yourself to see whether or not you are a true believer.
3. "How that Jesus Christ is in you?" Seriuosly now! You have no assurance that Jesus Christ is in you because you have to continually examine yourself to see if He is or not. You doubt your own salvation. You have no assurance.
4. Except you be reprobates. In fact you may be a reprobate. How do you know that you are not a reprobate? According to you, you need to examine your self; prove yourself; etc.

This is your interpretation of this verse. It is one that you have taken out of context along with 1John 4:1-4 which speaks about testing the spirits (also taken out of context).
The former passage speaks of false teachers and the latter speaks of demon possession, and you try to apply both of these passages to Christians which really is an ugly interpretation of Scripture.