Once Saved, always saved

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Emily, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Emily

    Emily
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    I dont believe this is what the bible says.

    Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?

    My husband and I are looking for a new church, and we dont quite know where we fit. I took a denomination test on the internet, and it led me to Free Will Baptist, but upon reading some of their doctrines, I find them to be unbiblical as well.. so.. Their second choice for me was Church of Christ, but, I love praising God with music too much for that... ;)

    Im sort of at a loss.
     
  2. Ephesus23

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    I'm a Fundamental Independent Baptist, and I and my church firmly believe once saved, always saved. When a person gets saved, he/she becomes a child of God, and a part of God's family. Now, while that person may backslide, fall away from Christ, or continue to sin, they are still a part of God's family. A son may lose his father's approval, but the father cannot deny the fact that he still has a son. In the same sense, once we're in God's family, he cannot deny us, since we are family. He simply will chastise us lovingly. When you become a part of God's family, you are supposed to love God enough and fear his chastising hand that you honor and obey him, so that you don't have to worry about backsliding. That is how we believe once saved, always saved. The book of Hebrews, chapter number 12 discusses this matter as well.
     
  3. Artimaeus

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    Welcome to the board Katy. I am convinced with every fiber of my tiny little brain and soul that OSAS is true. Baptists are fiercely independent and you would be hard put to find anything with 100% agreement (except maybe opposition to the Church of Christ. [​IMG] I would be very interested is seeing the denomination test you spoke of (I love stuff like that). Do you have a link?
     
  4. Ransom

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    Katy said:

    I dont believe this is what the bible says.

    Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?


    There are some, e.g. the Free Will Baptists, that don't, and I have met the occasional individual who did not, but for the most part Baptists do believe in "eternal security."

    Consider this passage:

    Note well what Jesus says:

    </font>
    • All who come to Jesus do so because they are given by the Father to the Son.</font>
    • Jesus always does the Father's will.</font>
    • The Father's will is that Jesus would lose nothing.</font>
    And therefore:

    </font>
    • All who come to Jesus will never hunger or thirst.</font>
    • All who come to Jesus will never be cast out.</font>
    • All who come to Jesus are raised up at the last day.</font>
    • All who come to Jesus receive eternal life.</font>
    We are saved and secure because we are Christ's possession, given to him by the Father. To say that you can lose your salvation is tantamount to saying either

    </font>
    • Christ can lose you; or</font>
    • Christ is disobedient to, or fails to do, the Father's will.</font>
    Both alternatives are unthinkable to any true Christian.

    Let's take a look at another passage, this time from Paul:

    We can know that all things work out for our good. Why? Because we are called according to God's foreknowledge and purpose. Everyone who is known by God is conformed to Christ's likeness, called, justified, and glorified. No one who starts out as one of God's people can fail to finish as one.

    If eternal security were false, then so would Romans 8 be false. How can we possibly know that God works all things for our good if at some point in the future we might fall from grace? The best we could do is hope all things would work for good. But Paul doesn't say we can hope, he says we can know - we can have confidence that this is true. He goes on:

    How can you answer this? Paul asks. No one can bring an accusation against us; God has declared us righteous and there is no higher court to which to appeal. No one can condemn us; Christ was condemned for us and continues to plead our case before the Father. There is no power on earth or in heaven that can overturn God's judgment or separate us from his love.

    There is a consistency to the theology that says that the final decision in salvation is up to us and we can lose our salvation. After all, if we sign up, we ought to be able to opt out too, right? But I don't believe for a minute that salvation rests on any choices I have made. It was God's work, and he will not fail to accomplish what he sets out to do.
     
  5. David Mark

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    To me it's just one of many paradoxes in scripture.

    Try to consider both sides of the paradox and see if there might be a sliver of Godly wisdom in the center.

    Just a suggestion.

    Peace. [​IMG]

    Dave.
     
  6. Servent

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    I to also believe once saved always saved,but I also believe that if a persons backslides (as some call it)or falls away or continues to sin that person may not have be saved in the first place.If a person is truly born again why would they ever turn away from God,Knowing what Christ did for us.
     
  7. john6:63

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    I concur with that! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. john6:63

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    A question for those who do believe one can be saved one day and lost the next. Lets say you asked the Lord to forgive you of your sins before you went to sleep, so you now can sleep at ease, knowing if you we’re to die while asleep, you’d be saved. Now, you wake up in the morning and sin going to work, you forget to repent, b/c work is hectic and your day is just stressful and you sin some more. You’ve still haven’t repented and you are tragically killed going to lunch. You die without asking for forgiveness of those sins since you went to sleep the night before.

    Are you still saved or lost? Is this what OSAS is all about?

    I ask for forgiveness every time I pray and I name the sin I committed when I repent. I don’t do this just to be saved again. I do this to restore my communion with my Father and to show my Father that I know I’m a sinner and that I’m not perfect and have nothing to hide. And of course, this doesn’t give me an excuse to sin, sin, and sin and live life the way I want to either and if I were to commit a rape or a pre-meditated murder, then I wasn’t truly saved and living a life for Christ. ---Does this make sense…
     
  9. Michael Wrenn

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    Katy,

    I don't believe in OSAS, and neither did the first Baptists in England--the General Baptists.

    There is a denomination of General Baptists in the USA, headquartered in Poplar Bluff, Missouri. I don't know whether or not they have churches in Michigan.

    There are others also: Free Will Baptists, as someone mentioned, and other groups.

    The American Baptist Churches, USA, are open to both Calvinistic (OSAS) and Arminian (non-OSAS) beliefs.

    If I can be of further help, please let me know.
     
  10. Emily

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    Originally posted by Servent:
    I to also believe once saved always saved,but I also believe that if a persons backslides (as some call it)or falls away or continues to sin that person may not have be saved in the first place.If a person is truly born again why would they ever turn away from God,Knowing what Christ did for us.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Imagine for a moment if you will..

    Pastor John is saved. He is loving and committed to his wife and family. He does nothing but seek the truth, pray, read the word of God. He leads many many people to Christ. He loves the Lord. He prays to the Lord. He worships the Lord. Of course Pastor John is not perfect, but nobody is. Pastor John truly believes in Jesus and that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. In Pastor John's life, it is completely evident that he is a believer, you dont even really have to talk to him to know it.

    Then

    Pastor John's life gets turned upsidedown. His faith gets totally shaken. His wife and kids get killed in a freak car accident. Though he turns to God and his church first, the people there are not quite as sympathetic and supporting as he thought, and his prayers seem to not be unanswered. He gets mad at God and seeks counsel with his unbelieving brother. His unbelieving brother invites him over more and more and more and they talk more and more and more. Then one night he has a drunk after dinner with his brother. Then one drink leads to another, and then one drunken night leads to 2 and 3 and 4. He gets caught up one night in drunken conversation with his brother about God, and the reasons that his brother doenst believe in God. These reasons start to make sense, and Pastor John, for himself makes the decision that he no longer believes in God AT ALL.. He makes the decision to completely walk away from his former life and start life new as an atheist. He feels as though his time has been wasted living for God when there is no God at all.. Silly Christians.. I have the truth he thinks..

    *****

    The bible does NOT say that we cant walk away from God. It says that nothing can take you away...

    There is also scripture after scripture after scripture supporting that you must endure to the end to get to heaven. Pastor John WAS a real believer, and who are you to judge otherwise? You are not God.

    We are all sinners.

    "He who believeht shall be saved"..

    If you no longer truly believeth in your heart, then I would have to say that you are no longer saved.
     
  11. Servent

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    Kathy, read the book of Job,I believe if Pastor John was truly saved, he would never turn his back on God. We must understand that just because we are christians our lifes are not going to be perfect, there will be problems,We are not promised any rewards here on earth we are however told we will have problems James 1:2 and we are to count them as joy.Our rewards will be given in heaven, for the work we do on earth, not for salvation, but because of salvation.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Katy - Your profile shows you are NOT a Baptist and you have inadvertently posted two very good questions in a "BAPTIST ONLY" part of the Board.

    I am allowing this thread to continue for a bit to be sure the question is answered, but ask you NOT to violate our policies by posting here.

    Thank you.
     
  13. PastorGreg

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    A lack of belief in eternal security is the natural outgrowth of making salvation the product of man's will. If salvation is about me and by me then I can lose it, but since it is of God's choice, by God's grace, in God's plan, I can't lose it.

    Katy, I think an understanding of Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 makes it very clear. He chose us. He adopted us. He made us joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What that means is that I can no more cease to be His son than Jesus can.

    As for Pastor John, Jesus deals in Matthew 7 with miracle workers, etc. who were never truly his children. Judas was a child of the devil and which of the disciples suspected it? None. If God does not chasten Pastor John and bring him back into fellowship with Him, it is because he was never His son. Jesus says to those cast into the Lake of Fire, "I never knew you." Not, "I used to know you, but don't anymore."
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

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    Greg,

    No, it's a natural outgrowth of a disbelief in fatalistic, deterministic Calvinism.
     
  15. Artimaeus

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    Interesting, I have never read one of these. I have seen the word endure but never in a verse that says you must endure to get to heaven. Could you show me a couple of these "scripture after scripture after scripture"?

    Statement #1

    Statement #2

    Katy, can you see the inconsistency in Statements #1 and #2? In one you are judging and in the other you are condemning judging.

    I have been a member of an independent Baptist church for nearly 30 years and have never heard any of the outlandish statements you mentioned (In the "What is a Baptist" thread). Being independent of an organization isn't dangerous. The danger is when men become independent of the Bible.
     
  16. skanwmatos

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    Just read the story of the prodigal son. He left his father, and lived in a far off land. But always remember who he was, even when he was far, far away from his father. He was still the prodigal son! His fellowship with the father was broken, but his relationship with the father never changed!
     
  17. massdak

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    in looking for a church you should stay away from any church that believe that you can loose your salvation, in fact those that believe this are believing in a false gospel. any type of religion that has one believe they need to do works or good works or any type of self keeping of their own salvation is a gospel of works. beware of those who will lead you into a religion as this, for if one truly believes that they are not eternally secure in Christ then they are not saved.
     
  18. RaptureReady

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    AMEN AND AMEN!
     
  19. RaptureReady

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    1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If a newborn Christian is not getting the "sincere milk of the word" they cannot grow, which leads to "dead faith" as James writes about. Therefore if some enticing thing comes around that sounds good and looks good, they usually fall for it. Sad to say, I have worn those shoes.
     
  20. Trotter

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    Homebound, we may seldom agree, but we do now. Amen!

    I do not understand how anyone can conceive God as being so weak as to not be able to hold onto those whom He calls to Himself. If God is not strong enough to withstand what we puny humans say or do, then I would have to say that He is not worthy of our worship, and would have to turn to Islam or the New Age to find my source.

    Thank God that I don't have to! God is able to keep that which I have committed to Him forever. There is nothing that I can do to change that. When He called to my heart and I answered Him, accepting the completed work on the cross, my fate was sealed then and there for eternity.

    How can someone "fall away"? Does God have butterfingers? How can anyone say, "I used to believe, but now I don't?" Even atheists call out to God when they see their own end upon them.

    I have been mad at God. Mad enough to want to walk away forever. But guess what? That didn't change my eternal destination. God is so much bigger than we give Him credit for. He already knows how we are going to screw up, and He even knew it before we ever accepted Him. But that doesn't change the fact that once you are His, you stay His. End of story. Praise God!

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     

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