Once saved, Always saved???

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by labinsk, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. labinsk

    labinsk
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    The following is from an unofficial Russian Baptist site:

    http://rusbaptist.stunda.org/engl/saved.html

    (By G. Avramenko, translated by D.M. Goroshko, 2001)

    To be continued
     
    #1 labinsk, Jan 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2007
  2. labinsk

    labinsk
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    Continue from first thread

    Continued ...

    http://rusbaptist.stunda.org/engl/saved.html

    (By G. Avramenko, translated by D.M. Goroshko, 2001)

    This is what i was thought in my church that i grew up in.
     
    #2 labinsk, Jan 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2007
  3. webdog

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    Joh 10:29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

    If we are the exception to "no one", this passage is a lie.
     
  4. Helen

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    Thank you, webdog. It might also be added that the Good Shepherd promised to go out and get any of us silly old sheep that wander...and bring us home.

    Paul has told us He is faithful to complete the good work He began (Phil 1:6) and that this good work is to transform us to the image of Christ (Romans 8:28-30).

    That means we can pay attention to Him now, and not ourselves.
     
  5. Brother Bob

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    Well, the children of God do go astray and that is why He does the "chastisement", to bring us back in line.

    The following scripture tells me that all of God's children go astray but not fall and lose their salvation. We can lose the joy of our salvation through disobeidance.

    I believe God is stronger than the devil and is able to keep that which has received the blood of His Son.


    Hebrews, chapter 12

    "8": But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
     
  6. GodsRealTruth

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    Here is another scripture to support Once Saved Always Saved

    Ephesians 4:30 "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
     
  7. SBCPreacher

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    I believe that we can damage our fellowship with God through disobedience, but we cannot damage our relationship with God - He is always going to be the Heavenly Father to His children.
     
  8. Allan

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    Conditional Salvation beleives if you stop trusting you haven't earned the right to be a child of God.
    However, Here is a scripture well known and I believe one that also shows salvation is irrevokable by it very nature (a gift)
    NOTE: saved is in the past perfect tense showing a completed act HAS been done. Which takes works out of the equation and keeps your boasting silent.

    It is also in the passive voice which means The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. And in no way indicates the action is continued on nor is it completed by the subject. Interesting how one word can unravil such drivil like conditional salvation.

    We can not save ourselves and by that token if we can not save ourselves we (with great assurance) can not keep ourselves saved since it was an act of God to begin with. Unless of course you are greater than God who saved you.

    It is of note what John stated in I John 2:19:
     
    #8 Allan, Jan 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2007
  9. labinsk

    labinsk
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    Mathew 5

    27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

    28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    What about this passage? what is it talking about. It seems to me that if you have problem with some sin you need to quit it so rest of you wont go to hell.

    Sorry for the trouble, its just thats how i was raised to believe and now that i go to IBBC (independent bible baptist church) a lot of times i just dont understand this kind of verses, I'm still not sure what to believe, I'm having really hard time to believe that God will take some one to heaven if they commit suicide, i dont think any saved person could possible do something like that. I think if person is saved there will be works and if there is no works then you need to think if you wore really saved
     
  10. Allan

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    This is not the same as the OP. No one disputes there should be works (a lifestyle) that evidences salvation. The question OP'ed was "Once saved, Always Saved??" The answer is - Yes - once you are saved you are ALWAYS saved.

    Or does the scripture I referenced lie. Before I deal with what you ask me to, please deal with what I have given in its contextual and literal meaning.

    When scripture denotes a person who has salvation it is ALWAYS in the past tense.

    Our justification, sanctification, and glorification as says the scriptures are all a done deal for those in Christ. And being IN Christ we are made a new creation IN Christ and our very nature changes (2 Cor 5:15 with regard to what it changed to) and is the very reason WE do the works meet unto repentence as says the scriptures.

    Like I said, once you deal with what I stated - I have no problem going verse by verse and explaining it.

    But salvation is done and we have been sealed till our redeption. It is much like the pagan phrase - your fate is sealed or unchangable. So is your salvation ONCE God via His matchless grace gives that gift given through faith.
     
    #10 Allan, Jan 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2007
  11. Scarlett O.

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    Hi, labinsk....

    This passage is talking about how a person can think that they are staying out of trouble by not committing various sins, but that they are already in trouble with just the evil motivations lurking around in the heart.

    May someone does stay out of his neighbor's wife's bed, but his thinking about it and wondering what it would be like has already condemned him.

    The verses about plucking out your eye and cutting off your hand cannot be taken literally. Jesus just got through saying that murder, adultery, and the rest begins in the heart and not the body. If we chopped of our body parts everytime we sinned, we would eventually kill ourselves. If a person is tempted to steal money, he could surely cut off his hand, but greed would still have a hold of his heart.

    I believe that Jesus is saying to get rid of the influences in your life that cause you to sin or to be tempted to sin, even if it hurts or costs you more than you wish to pay. Avoid the roots of sin at all costs. It may cost you a relationship with a friend/relative or perhaps even your job.....but flee sin and the roots of sin at any price.



    Well, yes, if you (a christian) are having a problem with sin, you do you to quit it! But not because it will send you to hell. Individual sins are not what commits a person to hell. There is nothing you can do that is bad enough to send you to hell.

    And the converse of that is true.....there is nothing you can do that is good enough to allow you into heaven.

    What sends you to hell is not your actions.......what sends you to hell is who you are. Your sin nature sends you to hell.

    And because of that, every human being born into this world is born already condemned to hell. What saves them is their taking on the yoke of Jesus Christ and allowing Him and His Atoning Blood to save them from an eternity in hell.

    By your reasoning, the Apostle Paul is burning in hell right now....in fact, he must have split it wide open.

    The Apostle Paul said that the things that is did not want to do....he kept doing them sometimes. And the things that he did want to do.....he sometimes didn't do them.

    He was a sinner. All of his life. In fact, he said, "I am the chief of sinners." He did not say, "I was..., but I am..."

    Of course, Paul is not in hell. But Paul knew that even though he was totally committed to the Blood of the Lamb that he was still a sinner....but a sinner saved by grace.



    Yes, there will be works performed by the christian and the will be sins committed by the christian. The works don't get the christian into heaven and the sins don't strip away their salvation and send them to hell.

    Paul and James both complete a perfect picture of the relationship between salvation and works.

    Paul said that working for the LORD will never make you saved.

    James said that once you are saved, you will desire will be to work for the LORD.

    The belief of "once saved always saved" should never be confused with "once saved....free to do as you please".
     
    #11 Scarlett O., Jan 9, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2007
  12. Allan

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    Agreed, it is better phrased - Once saved, always changed! (2 Cor 5:15)
     
  13. Soulman

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    If truly saved.......Always saved
     
  14. MB

    MB
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    The apostle Paul was convinced of the OSAS position.
    Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
    Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    To be seperated from His love is being LOST.
    Paul also told us;
    1Co 6:19 Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own;
    1Co 6:20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body.
    If man could walk away from his Salvation he would be stealing from God. How can someone steal from a God who knows all the answers? He knows where you are He knows everything about you. If man could become lost after Salvation then eternal life isn't so eternal is it?.
    No one who is trully a Christian can walk away since slaves are brought back. Christians are Christians because of the righteousness of Christ not because of anything they do or should do. Everyone sins even christians if we didn't we would need a Savior.
    MB
     

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